My buddy recently swaped out his brake system for an ITR setup in an ek with a h22 and we've figured out the master cylinder is dieing. He used the ITR master cylinder and were wondering if we could use a different master cylinder because of the cost. What do you guys think?

 

I think you need to search to determine the differences (if any, at all) there are between master cylinders.

 

I used an ITR master personally. However, I know you can use an LS or GSR also...

I personally find that the ITR MC gives too much force on the street and without abs. (Not much pedal travel) I will be putting legend calipers on my setup in order to Improve modulation. Also, if you are on a street car, I think that factory ITR pads would be ideal. I have EBC Greenstuffs and they are too aggressive...

Also, I did not change proportioning valves. I am using the stock DX 30-30 proportioning valve and it is fine! Honda Proportioning valves are diagonal, and they are match to the weight distribution of the car.

Anyhow, enjoy the brakes and make sure there is nothing loose in the car, because when you have such powerful brakes, you tend to want to stop harrd everytime... (I actually speed up before off ramps, and brake late because I know the brakes are incredible...)

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Gpelsise &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Also, I did not change proportioning valves. I am using the stock DX 30-30 proportioning valve and it is fine! Honda Proportioning valves are diagonal, and they are match to the weight distribution of the car.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Have fun locking up your rear brakes...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by El Pollo Diablo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Have fun locking up your rear brakes...</TD></TR></TABLE>

I've had the car and the brakes for 2 years. I talk from experience!
I HAVE HAD NO PROBLEMS WHATSOEVER!

I have also had friends take the car for a spin and watched as they locked the front wheels (NOT the back wheels) because they were not used to the brakes' power...

With regards to your comment about locking the wheels: Have you experienced it first hand, or are you repeating what you've heard? What car do you have, and which suspension do you have on it? I know you are a racer so you probably have experience, so please share it instead of making vague statements...


When I did my swap I went to several dealers and racers, and consulted with them. They told me that the proportioning valve was calibrated to the weight of the vehicle. Also, (though I am not certain of this) would 30-30 have the same proportioning as 40-40, with only possibly smaller holes? I have seen many different proportioning valves in cars at junkyards, and the stamp numbers usually varied according to body style, not according to disc/drums (EG: 90-93 integras had the 40-35, 94+ integras the 40-40, 90 accords 40-30???) I don't remember exact numbers as it was 2 years ago when I researched it...




Modified by Gpelsise at 2:31 PM 4/29/2004

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Gpelsise &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I've had the car and the brakes for 2 years. I talk from experience!
I HAVE HAD NO PROBLEMS WHATSOEVER!
</TD></TR></TABLE>

-well, good then, i'm glad

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Gpelsise &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I have also had friends take the car for a spin and watched as they locked the front wheels (NOT the back wheels) because they were not used to the brakes' power...
</TD></TR></TABLE>

-stabbing at the brake pedal is not the most efficient use of the braking force...

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Gpelsise &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
With regards to your comment: Have you experienced it first hand, or are you repeating what you've heard? What car do you have, and which suspension do you have on it?</TD></TR></TABLE>

-yes


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Gpelsise &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
When I did my swap I went to several dealers and racers, and consulted with them. They told me that the proportioning valve was calibrated to the weight of the vehicle. Also, (though I am not certain of this) would 30-30 have the same proportioning as 40-40, with only possibly smaller holes? I have seen many different proportioning valves in cars at junkyards, and the stamp numbers usually varied according to body style, not according to disc/drums (EG: 90-93 integras had the 40-35, 94+ integras the 40-40, 90 accords 40-30???) I don't remember exact numbers as it was 2 years ago when I researched it...
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Your several dealers/racers are/were wrong. They absolutely do vary between disc/drum/ disc/disc abs/non-abs...and do not corrolate to vehicle weight.

It's great that it's working out for you for whatever reason...but you're giving erronous advice.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by El Pollo Diablo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Your several dealers/racers are/were wrong. They absolutely do vary between disc/drum/ disc/disc abs/non-abs...and do not corrolate to vehicle weight.

It's great that it's working out for you for whatever reason...but you're giving erronous advice.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I searched and saw you have a hatch with 5 lug, and since you race it I'm sure you know what you're talking about. Because of this, please take the time to enlighten us:
1) Which proportioning valve do you personally use?
2) If you use a 40-40 (integra), how does it perform?
3) The 40-40 is adjusted to the weight and weight distribution of an integra. As the hatch has a different weight distribution, how does the you proportioning valve properly regulate brake strength.
4) Did you try your brakes with the 30-30 before?

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by El Pollo Diablo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

-stabbing at the brake pedal is not the most efficient use of the braking force...
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Agreed, but doesn't it still, show how braking power is distributed.

5) Finally since you so aggressivily state that proportioning valves absolutely do vary, could you please provide detailed specifications on fluid distribution for each valve (or at least provide a list of valves you tried, before finding your ideal setup.) I AM ONLY TALKING OF NON-ABS VALVES. ABS VALVES ARE COMPLETELY DIFFERENT And dont even look the same

AGAIN, YOU STATE THE DEALERS ARE WRONGS, SO PLEASE BACK YOURSELF UP WITH SPECIFICS. I am very eager to find out more, and if you can provide useable information, I'd really appreciate, and I'd probably go try it also... I very much care about the how well my brakes work and any improvements are always welcome!


Modified by Gpelsise at 2:26 PM 4/29/2004

 

Stabbing at the pedal causes film transfer and some very VERY nasty brake problems (until you rebed the brakes), commonly called 'warped rotors'.

Brakes are all about smooth engagement, very linear.

My experience with 40-40 integra prop valves on EG hatches has been very good.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Gpelsise &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I searched and saw you have a hatch with 5 lug, and since you race it I'm sure you know what you're talking about. Because of this, please take the time to enlighten us:
</TD></TR></TABLE>

lol...i wouldn't be so sure if i were j00...

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Gpelsise &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
1) Which proportioning valve do you personally use?
2) If you use a 40-40 (integra), how does it perform?
3) The 40-40 is adjusted to the weight and weight distribution of an integra. As the hatch has a different weight distribution, how does the you proportioning valve properly regulate brake strength.
4) Did you try your brakes with the 30-30 before?
</TD></TR></TABLE>

1-4040 integra RS...I'm still locking up the right rear wheel...althought that could be due to weight distribution
2-l00k above
3-a proportioning valve has nothing to do with vehicles weight
4-no, my hatch is an si, and thus came with disc brakes all around and the 3040 [or was it 4030?] prop valve


The thing to keep in mind, is that j00r kaa came originally with a drum brakes in the back. Drum brakes take longer to respond and require larger pressure for comparable force to a disc setup and thus a proportioning valve set-up for a disc/drum setup will be quite rear-biased compared to disc/disc prop valves. I am VERY surprised you're not locking up the rear brakes during hard braking, but that could be due to other factors.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Gpelsise &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Agreed, but doesn't it still, show how braking power is distributed.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

All i was getting it that if j00 stab at the brake pedal at high-medium speeds j00're going to lock up the front wheels [most likely] since j00 didn't allow the weight to transfer...j00'll also won't be stopping very fast.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Gpelsise &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
5) Finally since you so aggressivily state that proportioning valves absolutely do vary, could you please provide detailed specifications on fluid distribution for each valve (or at least provide a list of valves you tried, before finding your ideal setup.) I AM ONLY TALKING OF NON-ABS VALVES. ABS VALVES ARE COMPLETELY DIFFERENT And dont even look the same
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Of course I'm going state that, since they do vary. There is no detailed information that I came across, but from my finding:

3030 - worst
3040 - better
4040 - best out of oem's

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Gpelsise &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
AGAIN, YOU STATE THE DEALERS ARE WRONGS, SO PLEASE BACK YOURSELF UP WITH SPECIFICS. I am very eager to find out more, and if you can provide useable information, I'd really appreciate, and I'd probably go try it also... I very much care about the how well my brakes work and any improvements are always welcome!</TD></TR></TABLE>

-what specifics have the dealers given j00 other than the "holes" might be larger?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by El Pollo Diablo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

1-4040 integra RS...I'm still locking up the right rear wheel...althought that could be due to weight distribution
......
4-no, my hatch is an si, and thus came with disc brakes all around and the 3040 [or was it 4030?] prop valve
</TD></TR></TABLE>
some things I thought of while reading your posts: if your Si came with disks all around why change to a different PV? the 3040 was obviously installed with your weight distibution in mind. And what if the 4040 was intended for use on ABS model cars as it seems to be (or does your Si have ABS?)

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by pythonScott &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">And what if the 4040 was intended for use on ABS model cars as it seems to be</TD></TR></TABLE>

No, the 4040 is a non-ABS Integra Proportioning valve and isn't compatible with an ABS system. Regarding hatches with 4 wheel disks, I was under the impression that the only ones with 4 wheel disks had ABS equipped, thus making the 4040 the only valve from a non-ABS 4 wheel disk car and would thus be the best option for similar setups as the other non-ABS valves all come from drum equipped cars and would cause even more serious brake balance issues.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Kendall &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

No, the 4040 is a non-ABS Integra Proportioning valve and isn't compatible with an ABS system.</TD></TR></TABLE>

ah ok, so the 4040 is essentially an RS PV.

[QUOTE=Kendall]

Regarding hatches with 4 wheel disks, I was under the impression that the only ones with 4 wheel disks had ABS equipped, thus making the 4040 the only valve from a non-ABS 4 wheel disk car......QUOTE]
yep that's what I was wondering: if the EG Si with disks has ABS or no? but you're saying they do?

 

a 40/40 prop' valve was available for an Si. it was only for tha '94 Frost White Si's with ABS. used 10.25" front rotors.

every other Si hatch had tha 3040 prop' valve. used 9.5" front rotors.

every other trim level (w/drums) used tha 3030 prop' valve. same 9.5" front rotors, but with rear drums.

_taF

ps: i've had that rare '94 Frost White Si w/ABS, and i now have a '95 Si (non-ABS).

 

im using a gsr master cylinder with no problems.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by IVI &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">im using a gsr master cylinder with no problems.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
what car are you usin' it on?

_taF

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tallazzFilipino &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
what car are you usin' it on?

_taF</TD></TR></TABLE>
db8