I was just curious if for weekend autoXing was there a harness on the market that installs without a roll bar that is actually safe? I had looked at the I/O port harness bars, but most say those are only good for guides, not for hatching the bar to.

Thanks for any help.

Have a Forza seat ready to put in, but I would like to run a harness when autoX with it. The car is a 95 Civic Coupe.

 

With autocross, I don't see it as being that big of a deal. But tracking the car, would not be a good idea with only a harness and no cage!

Just a BIG NO NO!

 

Yea this will only be AutoX'd. We are working on our CVCC for track with a kirk cage in it. So how can you & which harnesses can be installed without a rollbar? Rather hear from experiences than just look up in catalogs.
Thanks.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by prkiller &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">... But tracking the car, would not be a good idea with only a harness and no cage!

Just a BIG NO NO!</TD></TR></TABLE>

That makes sense, and I agree. I wonder why the Alpha Romeo club of SoCal requires a 5 point harness for their time trial events. Roll bar required in convertibles only. I don't quite get it.

 

They make harnesses especially for non caged cars they look like this



the single Y into 1 rear belts is how you can tell

 

I've seen people at Autocrosses run the belt to the Child seat anchor that's on the rear deck lid of some newer cars. It's a long run, but the angle's right if your car has them.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by thumpu77 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I've seen people at Autocrosses run the belt to the Child seat anchor that's on the rear deck lid of some newer cars. It's a long run, but the angle's right if your car has them.</TD></TR></TABLE>

that's what i'm using in my car for auto-x's. it doesn't seem like it's the most secure mounting location though--not sure how many newtons it'd take to rip the thing right out, but it doesn't feel very "solid".

traditionally people will mount the rear harness to the driver's side passenger upper seat belt bolt.

 

When I pulled the roll bar out of my STS car I needed a new place to mount the shoulder belts. I decided to go the easiest way I could and ran a tie down strap from the jack holder in the hatch to the shoulder belts. It ain't pretty but works well for autocross.

 

Mounting it to the child safety seat attachment point is a BIG no no. That anchor is pure sheet metal and is really relatively easy to rip out, esp considering you don't weigh as much as a baby. If you have to, just attach it to the rear shoulder seatbelt mount as that is MUCH stronger than any child seat attachment point.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TimeRacer &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Mounting it to the child safety seat attachment point is a BIG no no. That anchor is pure sheet metal and is really relatively easy to rip out, esp considering you don't weigh as much as a baby. If you have to, just attach it to the rear shoulder seatbelt mount as that is MUCH stronger than any child seat attachment point.</TD></TR></TABLE>

yeah i figured as much. the problem is in a prelude the c-pillar interior piece covers the rear shoulder mount. i'm wondering if doing some welding or other means of reinforcing might bolster the efficacy of the childseat attachment?

 

Short of welding in a bar that attaches to the frame you're stuck in that regard. It's not hard to remove the Prelude rear shoulder belt cover at all. It's like a 10-15 min job to install the anchor point.

 

Using a harness belt for autocross is not a problem. By far the most popular harnesses for autocrossing are the Schroth Rallye 3, Rallye 4, and RallyeCross...
http://www.soloracer.com/schroth.html

For track use, this subject has been debated endlessly. I personally don't recommend harness use at hight speed events unless you have rollover protection in the car AND preferrably a racing seat. But I have talked to a few "experts" about this subject lately, and they have commented that they see nothing wrong with using a harness on the track without rollover protection. In their opinion, the benefits outweigh the disadvantages, and the safety issues have been blown out of proportion on various internet forums and email lists. This may be why a few respected manufacturers like Sparco, Stable Energies, and Brey-Krause (to name a few) make harness bars for cars.

Don't mean to start another debate over this, but just thought I'd pass it along. Again, I still do NOT recommend the use of harnesses at high speed events without rollover protection, but it appears some people think the safety issue has been overblown.

 

The Syner G racing team of ohio don't have cages. because we are only weekend auto guys anyway.... The best mounting points we have found are.....

Taking out the rear seats and bolting the shoulder harnesses into where the rear seat belts laches were. Then the lap belts we bolt just a little under the seat on ether side. which looks good because the bolts are hidden for when your showing the car.... make sure you look under the car so you don't hit the wrong thing but just the floor. Put a huge nut on the bolts torque it down. and your good. nice support and there is a high chance they will not break specally just a weekend auto guy. you may also use a sealer to seal the bolts that way water from ran will not find its way through the bolts and rest in your floor boards.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Brett@SoloRacer.com &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Using a harness belt for autocross is not a problem. By far the most popular harnesses for autocrossing are the Schroth Rallye 3, Rallye 4, and RallyeCross...
http://www.soloracer.com/schroth.html

For track use, this subject has been debated endlessly. I personally don't recommend harness use at hight speed events unless you have rollover protection in the car AND preferrably a racing seat. But I have talked to a few "experts" about this subject lately, and they have commented that they see nothing wrong with using a harness on the track without rollover protection. In their opinion, the benefits outweigh the disadvantages, and the safety issues have been blown out of proportion on various internet forums and email lists. This may be why a few respected manufacturers like Sparco, Stable Energies, and Brey-Krause (to name a few) make harness bars for cars.

Don't mean to start another debate over this, but just thought I'd pass it along. Again, I still do NOT recommend the use of harnesses at high speed events without rollover protection, but it appears some people think the safety issue has been overblown.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I like the Schroth Rallye 4 Harness and the RallyeCross. Those just bolt into the rear seat belt points? I'm pretty interested in those. Anyone got pics of any of these installed, I saw the one pic on soloracer.com.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 275Performance &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I like the Schroth Rallye 4 Harness and the RallyeCross. Those just bolt into the rear seat belt points? I'm pretty interested in those. Anyone got pics of any of these installed, I saw the one pic on soloracer.com. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Here is the Schroth Rallye 4 installed in my ITR. I was using it for autox - but I'm going to be doing some track days this year, so I'm not sure what to do with it at this point. I like how it installs to the rear seatbelt mounting points below the seat.

Do HPDE event oganizers prohibit the use of harnesses without rollover protection? I have only experience with what I have read on this board and was wondering if this is a universal feeling or (like Brett stated above) there are people out there using the harness at track events without rollover protection. In my head I can think of several cars that come installed with a harness without rollover protection that i would bet are being used on the track.

Is it is as black and white as people on this board make it out to be at times?

 

If anything DO NOT use that setup for the track. If you did hit something head on the angle that you mounted that harness at is going cause some MAJOR spinal compression. You never want to exceed 45 degrees negative angle when mounting the shoulder harness which is the need for the harness bar or mounting it via a C-pillar.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TimeRacer &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If anything DO NOT use that setup for the track. If you did hit something head on the angle that you mounted that harness at is going cause some MAJOR spinal compression. You never want to exceed 45 degrees negative angle when mounting the shoulder harness which is the need for the harness bar or mounting it via a C-pillar.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Would you consider this a better angle set up than the lower seat beltmounting point then?

 

Thats the way I had my Schroth Rallye 3's mounted in my 240sx w Autopower rollbar (no harness bar). I felt comfortable enough with the setup to take it to the track.

-Charlie