Hi all,
I'm new here. Just got a set of zeal b6 on a 96' civic 4-door. I have been doin some search on archived topics in this forum on the b6 and found that the measurement should be 18cm springs, front and rear, and for threaded body length should be 25cm front and 26cm rear. Used this setting and found that the front is identical to that of standard type r absorbers. Here are the height before and after:
Before (type r absorbers) F: 60.0cm R: 62.5cm
After (zeal b6, factory setting) F:60.0cm R:60.0cm

My question is : Now that I've got front and back the same height, how will it affect the handling? I'm prepping my car for an autoX this weekend.

Thanks.

 

two words- Corner Balance

that is all

 

Leave it as you got it (corner balance if you have the time to) and just drive at the event and take note of how the car is handling. After you know how the car is handling then you can start to make adjustments.

 

Different drivers prefer different settings based on how they want the car to behave. Some people like gentle understeer (though probably no one on this board ), others like insane oversteer. Drive on it a bit, make changes as you see fit.

 

Thanks for your input guys. That was really useful. Did some practice runs (of course on a very controlled environment) and noticed that the stiffer the dampening, the better the car handles. Here's my current setup : Dampening : F-level 3, R-level 3. Tyre pressure : F36psi R30psi. Camber -1 deg front, -1.5 deg rear. Toe : front slight toe out, rear slight toe in (not sure of the exact figures, but just slightly). Perhaps i'll dwell into corner balance at a later stage, cuz i'm still a noob in this department. Cheers y'all.

 

I'm not sure how it would affect your handling exactly, but you may want to set the rear toe to zero. Also, I don't know how you want the car to behave, but I like my B6s set to 3F/4R with about 34psi F/36psi R. It's a bit more neutral that way for me, whereas with the 3R/30psi R would understeer a bit. Again though, all depends on how you want it. Play with a wide variety of shock settings if you get a chance, not necessarily for street driving (1F/1R is usually how I go, just to not overwork them on these crappy roads) but just to see how it changes. Last time I autoxed, 3F/5R gave me a bit more oversteer when I wanted it. 6 in either F or R is just ridiculous, and probably only acceptable on track (if anywhere at all).

 

sscguy,
Do you mean that by setting the rear dampening harder than front will induce oversteer, and vice versa? With my current 3f/3r, i felt the car's neutral, perhaps also has to do with the tyre pressures. Can I ask why do you set your rear tyre pressure to be higher than the front? Thanks.

 

Correct, the rear being stiffer than the front will induce oversteer, and also correct, setting the rear SOFTER than the front will induce understeer. 3F/4R was what felt most neutral to me, and with the tire pressures set as above I had just a touch of oversteer when I wanted it. That's a similar concept to the shocks: if the rear tire pressure is higher than the front tire pressure, you're set up more towards oversteer, and again, vice versa. When I first started HPDEing, I had the fronts set to a higher pressure, and somewhere along the line someone suggested I switch that, and it definitely felt better for how I wanted the car to move. I also like a little oversteer though, so that might be different for you. I'm going out driving tonight, so I'll set mine to how you have yours and see how it feels, maybe I can give you a legitimate comparison.

 

sscguy,
any feedback on your settings? I now run my zeal b6 on 4F / 3R, with front tyre pressure higher than rear. And you're right, I do get understeer. Now I'm trying to set it the over way to get some oversteer. Comments appreciated.

 

To add to my previous thread, I've previously competed in a local autox, and managed to finish in top 10. I feel that i can push the car further, but don't know where i should start on. Anyone can give me some pointers, besides sscguy?

The following are my settings :
car : civic ek 4-door
suspension ; zeal function b6; 4f, 3r dampening (6 is the max). springs 12k front, 9k rear.
tyres ; 195/55/15 all, 36psi front, 34psi rear.
i also have cusco strut bars and civic type r anti roll bars front and rear.

Driving impression : understeers whenever i brake late and then try to steer the car. my friends who were watching me run also noticed my rear wheel lifting off the ground when i take corners. Actually, it's the rear wheel that's at the inside of the corner. Is this normal? I feel it's fast at medium corners, but too much understeer at tight corners. How do i counter this, or increase speeds at hairpins? Would increasing the dampening to stiffer do any good?

Your feedback and comments appreciated.

 

Slow in, fast out in tight corners. Think about the friction circle and traction budget.

Lifting an inside wheel is normal, dont worry about it.

 

Your front springs are too stiff and your rears are too soft. A quick fix would be to swap the springs front to back (might need to re-valve the shocks). Even then I would still go softer in the front, it will give you better turn in and front end grip.

Wider tires are also a must.

If your current setup put you in the top ten then I would guess you could take TTOD with a revised setup.

As .RJ already mentioned, don't worry about lifting the inside rear wheel.

 

Sorry KillerB, I haven't had a chance to adjust the settings and try it out yet (oil pressure light coming on early in the drive = no more driving). I should be able to give it a go tomorrow evening though, so I'll let you know.

 

When I shock dyno`d the B6`s, I found that settings 1-2 were the same, 3-4 were the same and 5-6 were the same making them only 3-way adjustable. Keep that in mind when you are setting the car up.

Ryan

 

VTEC, not to contradict you or anything, but the car definitely feels different adjusting between 3 and 4. Could they have changed the shocks over the years, or maybe there's a different compression or rebound between 3 and 4?

 

RJ,
How slow must i go in slow in fast out? I mean, what's the optimum speed for a hairpin?

vtecvoodoo,
I second what sscguy said. There is an apparent difference between 1 and 2, 3 and 4, etc.

Thanks for the feedback guys.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Ki11erB &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">RJ,
How slow must i go in slow in fast out? I mean, what's the optimum speed for a hairpin?
</TD></TR></TABLE>

it depends on a lot of stuff. you can't just say "22.4mph is the ideal speed for a tight hairpin". however, something new a learned for instucting people that seemed to work pretty good. i told my students to take wherever they were braking before and start braking a full car length earlier. you have to remember that late braking in autocross isn't going to find you much time, if any at all. also, corner entry understeer is the worst possible thing you can have happen in a corner. i would rather be entering the corner 1mph too slow then .5mph too fast.

nate

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Ki11erB &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">RJ,


vtecvoodoo,
I second what sscguy said. There is an apparent difference between 1 and 2, 3 and 4, etc.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

I tested a set that had about 2k miles on them. Maybe I had a bad set? They performed fine otherwise. The numbers were in black n white . Maybe your butt dyno is more accurate than our shock dyno

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Ki11erB &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">RJ,
How slow must i go in slow in fast out? I mean, what's the optimum speed for a hairpin? </TD></TR></TABLE>

Means if you go in too fast and are scrubbing off speed and understeering, its not the car's fault. You need to brake earlier/harder and be more patient getting on the throttle.

 

I know the B6s are combined compression/rebound adjustable, do any shocks have two settings for each? For instance, 3 would be X compression and X rebound, while 4 would be X compression and Y rebound. I have no idea how shocks are designed or if that's even possible, just a thought, especially if the shock dyno measured only one of the actions.

 

I run with F4/5R for the shocks with my B6s. I was told that you shouldn't really play around with the height because it's already pre-adjusted by Endless/Zeal to optimal settings. I do feel that the rear is too soft. So like someone said earlier you might wanna get stiffer springs in the rear. I'm probably gonna do 14F and 12R in the future with my B6s.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by THEINTEGRATION &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I run with F4/5R with my B6s. I was told that you shouldn't really play around with the height because it's already pre-adjusted by Endless/Zeal to optimal settings. I do feel that the rear is too soft. So like someone said earlier you might wanna get stiffer springs in the rear. I'm probably gonna do 14F and 12R in the future with my B6s.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Mess with the ride height all you want, just don't raise them beyond what is specified in the manual. Why would you run a setting that was picked by a company that doesn't know what you are going to use your car for? Out of the box mine had to be lowered (Integra) where as a friend of mine had to raise his (CRX).

14f/12r? You a fan of understeer?

 

I think when Zeal was talking about not adjusting the height, it was referring to not adjusting the height of the spring itself. If you adjust the height by the shock body, that would be fine.

 

Ok KillerB, I went out last night with the following settings: shocks-4F/3R tires-34psiF/30psiR. It's just my opinion, but that felt like ***. I would understeer at certain corners, but then had throttle-on oversteer in others. It felt very unbalanced and unpredictable. Alternatively, it did feel VERY stable at higher highway speeds, so if that's a concern of yours, it may work out for you. As a comparison, without changing those above tire pressures, I swapped the shock settings to 3F/4R and immediately it felt much better. Going over bumps was also less harsh with the latter setting.

 

sscguy, thanks for the trial. That was what i felt - understeer most of the time! And at tight corners, I just gotta wait till the front stops bouncing all over the place before i can get a grip. Will change my settings to 3f/4r and tyre pressure to be lower in front, higher at the back - by the weekend. Let's see how it goes. Later........