Ok, here's the setup:

ITR Springs, struts, swaybars, and front strut bar.

After all of that work, I have a little problem. I seem to lose control of the car wayy to fast. I think i'm overestimating the ITR suspension setup, but if this is how the "world's best handling FWD car handles", then I will be the first to say that it sucks! I know my car isn't fully setup like an ITR, but its close, and I was hoping for some close characteristics.

Whenever I take a turn, my back end always slides - I am using some pretty sticky rubber. Could it be that i'm testing the limits of the handling ability? It's not like i'm going super quick - a lot of times, i'll take a 90 degree corner at about 60mph and the back end will slide out - any suggestions on how to improve this?


Modified by WeaponR at 4:35 AM 4/12/2004

 

Well... you have to remember. tons of difference between your car and the type r.

1 big one is LSD. I have a good feeling you dont have one.
Another is a more rigid chassis and better weight distribution.

You're overestimating... like most here will say, you can do all you want, but it'll never really be a type r.

 

You're right, I don't have an LSD. I guess i'd like to steer the discussion to what I should be looking at buying. I have already purchased some Koni Yellows. What is the weight distribution of an ITR compared to an LS?

 

i am not a suspension expert but isn't all your upgrades meant to tighten? that is what 22mm or 23mm rear sway does makes the rear tight so it slides out

 

Perhaps thats what it does, but is that necessarily a good thing? I'd rather have some body roll than have my back end slide out on every hard turn...I'm not sure if thats what the swaybar was meant to do

 

the bigger rear bar is meant to help keep u from understeering and help rotate the car around the corner. how are you entering these corners? are you just throwing the car into them or going deep, turning then hitting your brakes after your already in the corner? you have to settle the car before the turn then you can accelerate through the corner. may not look as cool as drifting but it's faster.

 

"Well on an FWD car you can't steerthe car while on the throttle. Anytime you go into a turn you need the car to start rotating when no the brakes. So in order to do that you need to lock down the rear with either a lot more spring rate or use larger diameter sway bars. It's interesting beacause Japan sets up their race cars completely different from American road race vehicles. Typically on a street car you would go heavy on the front because of the engine and lighter in the rear. The same theory is applied on Japanese race cars but the way they get the car to rotate is they use differnt wheel offsets on the front and rear while using a softer compound tire on the front and harder in the rear. I the U.S. they tend to lock down the suspension tuning a lot more, using the big sway bar in the rear and stiffer spring rates. An example would be the mugen eg6 which used a 30mm front and a 24mm rear sway bar setup while our newly completed Skunk2 civic is using stock up front and 38mm in the rear. So basically you want the front to plant using a smaller sway barwhile using a larger sway bar in the rear, -enabling the back end to rotate around more freely"
-Dave Hsu
skunk2
import tuner interview

maybe this will help you a little i found it enlightening

 

Don't be scared of the car rotating, that is what it is supposed to do. But it seems to be very possible that you are going to fast. Slow Down!!!!!

Learn the limits of your vehicle. You should be able to control the oversteer with the throttle. If the *** end kicks out......accelerate.........if it won't kick out........lift. It's that simple.

Rotation is not a bad thing if you can control it.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by WeaponR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i'll take a 90 degree corner at about 60mph and the back end will slide out - any suggestions on how to improve this?


Modified by WeaponR at 4:35 AM 4/12/2004</TD></TR></TABLE>

1. stop driving wrecklessly
2. stop lifting mid corner
3. stay on the gas
4. go to an autoX, and learn the limits of your car in a safer environment

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by WeaponR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">It's not like i'm going super quick - a lot of times, i'll take a 90 degree corner at about 60mph and the back end will slide out - any suggestions on how to improve this?
Modified by WeaponR at 4:35 AM 4/12/2004</TD></TR></TABLE>

Its not like Im going super quick, I'll just take a 180 hairpin going 90mph. I have a suggestion, cut off your arms and legs.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by WeaponR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Perhaps thats what it does, but is that necessarily a good thing? I'd rather have some body roll than have my back end slide out on every hard turn...I'm not sure if thats what the swaybar was meant to do</TD></TR></TABLE>

Well...most FWD cars understeer like little piggies. A little "twitchiness" can be helpful in getting the car to rotate.

Have you done any HPDEs or Autocross? I'd suggest it...I've only been on track once and I know I learned a ton. I can't wait to get back out there!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by WeaponR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Ok, here's the setup:

ITR Springs, struts, swaybars, and front strut bar.
Modified by WeaponR at 4:35 AM 4/12/2004</TD></TR></TABLE>

Which rear swaybar? If it is adjustable, which setting do you have it at?

The other issue is you, the driver. There could be a few things you are doing that could cause the rear end to step out. Lifting on the throttle mid corner, braking to late, turning the wheel to sharply, etc.

Might be time for a driving school.

 

it's never the suspension-- it's always the driver

 

With the ITR rear sway bar, your car is handling more neutral/oversteer. Therefore the backend is rotating. In the stock setup, your car understeers like a biatch. The reason for this is, it's a lot safer! Car manufactures don't want to sell cars where the rear end kicks out. Most of the public do not know how to handle this car (except for pre 996 porsches).

I have the JDM ITR rear bar too (23mm one). And the car definately has more oversteer in it. You gotta becareful when you're hanging turns now, as you can snap the tail out. Make sure you know how to catch it if that happens.

Remember:
Understeer is where the Driver says "OH ****!"
Oversteer is where the Passenger says "OH ****!"

 

Here's a dumb question, but have you had your car properly aligned? If you never got your car aligned that would most likely be your problem.

 

Im sorry, not many cars can take a 90 degree turn at 60mph(atleast not a sharp 90 degree). You're just expecting tooo much from your car, when you have a super car with 275+ tires all the way around try again, until then slow down.

 

Remember:
Understeer is where the Driver says "OH ****!"
Oversteer is where the Passenger says "OH ****!"

lol i love that..

i think your just expecting way to much from your car for starters...

 

what air pressures are you running? run a slightly lower pressure in the rear. that might help a bit. yeha and slow down man. no need to take 90º turns at 60mph.

hell all i got is a GS-R strut bar, neuspeed sport springs, old worn tokico blues, 215/40/17 wheels and i can get the *** end to slide out on a 90º turn. but it's only when i throw it into the turn

 

It's time to attend some Auto-X events and/ or HPDE's.

 

the tailiness is part of what makes the ITR or any properly sorted fwd car adjustable around a bend. okay, you don't want it to the point that a gentle liff of the throttle sends you into the bushes. the adjustability of the ITR is what makes it so capable as a fun, fwd car. that said, any number of european hatches have similar traits- 206 gti, 306 gti6, clio sport etc. these cars actually **** the inside rear wheel on tight bends and seem to be a little more taily through sweepers than ITR's. this adjustability of the rear of the car is very handy on the track.

i wouldn't recommend breaking the grip threshold on public roads though
doing upwards of 100km/h and spinning/sliding is a recipe for disaster in the wrong environment.


Modified by slimbo at 1:45 PM 4/13/2004

 

ITR suspension is good for a stock car.. it's good for daily driving on the street. In terms of performance, tokiko + eibach prokits is more aggressive.

any car going too fast with enough front grip will make the tail slide out

based on your setup, the car would tend to under steer when pushed in a corner

my suggestion is.. GO SLOWER around the corner!

 

what kinda shocks do u have ?

 

90 degree turns at 60mph?!?! Thats just wreckless. Thats almost freeway speeds and turning at 90 degrees..... I glad your still alive.

 

Even so, be thankful that your car oversteers rather than understeers. I spent a hell of a lot of money getting my car to handle and oversteer the way I wanted it to, and it sounds like your car just does it.

Please for the sake of everything good in your life, please get to an autocross where you can really test the limits of the car.

 

To all those who have posted, thanks for your suggestions. I am not a wreckless driver. In fact, I am older than my first post has led many of you to believe. I do have a good driving record, but as anyone whose ever installed new suspension parts, taking hard turns is the first thing you do. Granted, the 60mph part may have been taken slightly out of context (I really put that number up there as an estimate - now that I think about it, thats nearly 100km/h). I would instead say about 40mph or so, which is a reasonable expectation for this car IMO.