I found this stuff while investigating brake fluid cooling. Anyone ever try it?



It has a 610 degree boiling point and manufacturer said it was used by a Formula one team. Here is a nice table comparing the dry and wet boiling points of popular fluids.

http://www.gs610.com/compare.htm

 

looks good but for $40 for 16oz I'll stick with my cheap valvoline fluid.

 

O G Racing seems to carry it, as well as other good fluids.

http://www.ogracing.com/eshop/home.asp?categ=68

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nsxtasy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
ARRANGED BY DRY BOILING POINT:

DRY:401F -- WET:284F --- DOT3 MINIMUM
DRY:446F -- WET:311F --- DOT4 MINIMUM
DRY:500F -- WET:356F --- DOT5 MINIMUM
DRY:502F -- WET:343F --- VALVOLINE SYNPOWER
DRY:509F -- WET:365F --- MOTUL 5.1
DRY:527F -- WET:302F --- AP RACING 551
DRY:536F -- WET:392F --- ATE SUPERBLUE/TYP200
DRY:590F -- WET:410F --- AP RACING 600
DRY:590F -- WET:518F --- CASTROL SRF
DRY:593F -- WET:420F --- MOTUL RBF600
DRY:610F -- WET:421F --- NEO-SYNTHETIC SUPER DOT 610
DRY:620F -- WET:425F --- COBALT SUPER XRF

ARRANGED BY WET BOILING POINT:

DRY:401F -- WET:284F --- DOT3 MINIMUM
DRY:527F -- WET:302F --- AP RACING 551
DRY:446F -- WET:311F --- DOT4 MINIMUM
DRY:502F -- WET:343F --- VALVOLINE SYNPOWER
DRY:500F -- WET:356F --- DOT5 MINIMUM
DRY:509F -- WET:365F --- MOTUL 5.1
DRY:536F -- WET:392F --- ATE SUPERBLUE/TYP200
DRY:590F -- WET:410F --- AP RACING 600
DRY:593F -- WET:420F --- MOTUL RBF600
DRY:610F -- WET:421F --- NEO-SYNTHETIC SUPER DOT 610
DRY:620F -- WET:425F --- COBALT SUPER XRF
DRY:590F -- WET:518F --- CASTROL SRF

As you can see, Cobalt Super XRF has really high boiling points, and at $12 for a 12-ounce can, the price is quite reasonable. You can order it from Andie at Cobalt Friction, the brake god who sells lots of great brake products at great prices.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

I will also add:
DRY:622F -- WET:424F --- ENDLESS RF-650

That goes for around 80US for a 1 litre (33oz) metal bottle which is comparable to the price of a GS610 at $40 for a single 16oz plastic bottle.


Looking at the prices, i would be hesitant to spend so much on the Endless or GS610 or the Castrol RBF......unless someone can convince me otherwise. If even the company websites havent convinced me that their products are better through product description, i dont know who can. I think I'll be happy with the Cobalt Super XRF based on the numbers it advertises.

[edit] after a quick search it looks as if Cobalt doesnt even stock them any longer. Whoops, sorry if this is old news.

 

Cobalt Super XRF. Does that stuff actually exist. It is not listed on the Cobalt site. They only list:

AP Racing Super 600 $21.99
ATE Gold & Blue $11.99
Castrol SRF $69.99
Motul RBF 600 $14.99

So does the GS610 fluid still have the highest dry boiling point at 610 F of fluids you can actually obtain? It would also appear to have the second highest wet boiling point, second only to Castrol SRF, the fluid I have seen many racing teams using. GS610 lists for around $40 versus Castrol at $70. As for the Endless RF-650, I didn't see that listed on the Endlessusa site. Who carries it?

Also does anyone know if some fluids are more hygroscopic than others, in terms of getting more easily from the dry to the wet boiling point?

 

I've been racing for years, and still use Ford Heavy Duty. Never had a problem, generally flush the fluid twice a season, and do a very quick bleed it before every weekend. I've yet to have a problem at Mosport. Many other guys I race with also still use Ford HD - some guys use Castrol SRF, etc, I think they are highly overrated. To be having such issues with your brakes that one needs such fancy fluids, what the heck are you guys doing?

 

I can't seem to boil the Ford fluid at either CMP or VIR-south, 2 of the hardest tracks on brakes in the Mid-Atlantic.

I'm sure that stuff is good, but until Ford HD lets me down, I'm happy spending $3/bottle....

 

I've been using Motul RBF600 and like it better than the ATE. It's a little expensive but that's a little luxury that I can afford.

I don't think most of us would need anything higher than Motul or ATE since our cars are not that fast and heavy.

 

I decided to make my own list of brake fluids. I looked up the actual wet and dry boiling points on the manufacturer's web site (as best I could). There are a few products which were not on the previous list. I added ballpark prices as well.

ARRANGED BY DRY BOILING POINT:

DRY:401F -- WET:284F --- DOT3 MINIMUM (GLYCOL BASE)
DRY:446F -- WET:311F --- DOT4 MINIMUM (GLYCOL BASE)
DRY:500F -- WET:356F --- DOT5 MINIMUM (SILICONE BASE)
DRY:500F -- WET:356F --- DOT5.1 MINIMUM (GLYCOL BASE)
DRY:527F -- WET:302F --- AP RACING 551 ($12.95/0.5L OR 16.9 OZ)
DRY:527F -- WET:347F --- VALVOLINE SYNPOWER DOT3 & DOT4
DRY:536F -- WET:392F --- ATE SUPERBLUE/TYP200 ($9.95/1L)
DRY:550F -- WET:284F --- FORD HEAVY DUTY DOT 3 ($4/12 OZ)
DRY:570F -- WET:284F --- WILWOOD 570 ($5.65/12 OZ)
DRY:570F -- WET:284F --- PERFORMANCE Friction Z rated ($6.27/16 OZ)
DRY:590F -- WET:410F --- AP RACING 600 ($16.95/0.5L OR 16.9 OZ)
DRY:590F -- WET:518F --- CASTROL SRF ($69.00/1L 0R 33.8 OZ)
DRY:593F -- WET:420F --- MOTUL RBF600 ($12.95/0.5L OR 16.9 OZ)
DRY:601F -- WET:399F --- BREMBO LCF 600 PLUS ($26.75/0.5L OR 16.9 OZ)
DRY:610F -- WET:421F --- NEO SYNTHETICS SUPER DOT 610 ($11.95/12 OZ)
DRY:610F -- WET:421F --- PROSPEED GS610 ($39.95/16 OZ)
DRY:626F -- WET:417F --- WILWOOD EXP 600 ($16.95/0.5L 16.9 OZ)

ARRANGED BY WET BOILING POINT:

DRY:401F -- WET:284F --- DOT3 MINIMUM
DRY:570F -- WET:284F --- WILWOOD 570
DRY:570F -- WET:284F --- PERFORMANCE Friction Z rated
DRY:550F -- WET:284F --- FORD HEAVY DUTY DOT 3
DRY:527F -- WET:302F --- AP RACING 551
DRY:446F -- WET:311F --- DOT4 MINIMUM
DRY:527F -- WET:347F --- VALVOLINE SYNPOWER DOT3 & DOT4
DRY:500F -- WET:356F --- DOT5.1 MINIMUM (GLYCOL BASE)
DRY:500F -- WET:356F --- DOT5 MINIMUM (SILICONE BASE)
DRY:536F -- WET:392F --- ATE SUPERBLUE/TYP200
DRY:601F -- WET:399F --- BREMBO LCF 600 PLUS
DRY:590F -- WET:410F --- AP RACING 600
DRY:626F -- WET:417F --- WILWOOD EXP 600
DRY:593F -- WET:420F --- MOTUL RBF600
DRY:610F -- WET:421F --- NEO SYNTHETICS SUPER DOT 610
DRY:610F -- WET:421F --- PROSPEED GS610
DRY:590F -- WET:518F --- CASTROL SRF

Some fluids on the manufacturer's web site did not specify wet boiling point, so I used the relevant DOT 3 value.

Water absorption:
DOT 3: This brake fluid has a glycol base with additives. It is clear to amber in color. It is hygroscopic (meaning it absorbs moisture) and has a minimum dry boiling point of 401°F (205°C) minimum and a minimum wet boiling point of 284°F (140°C). It will absorb 1 to 2 percent of water per year depending on climate and operating conditions.

An example from Baer's site: "For racing, Baer recommends and uses only Castrol SRF."

It is not clear how much water is absorbed by all the different fluids. There are many claims about one fluid absorbing less than another, but no facts, so it is hard to believe unless one has tested the fluids. I think the wet boiling point is tested at 3.5% moisture content.

Many fluids are likely made by the same manufacturer. I left off the Cobalt Super XRF since it is not listed on their web site. It is obvious that Castrol SRF is still the king in terms of wet boiling point, so from a safety point of view, that is perhaps why I have seen a lot of teams using it. There are also 4 fluids with dry boiling points above 600 degrees. The Wilwood EXP 600 seems to be the king in the dry boiling dept. at 626 degrees. The last ones in the list that look like a good buy for high performance are Motul RBF600 ($26/L), Neo Super DOT 610 ($34/L), and Wilwood EXP 600 ($34/L). These are about half the price of Castrol SRF, but have a lower wet boiling point. So the Motul is the best deal in the top group, according to the prices I found. It has a dry boiling point about the same as the SRF, and a wet boiling point as high as the highest group below the SRF.

 

Am I crazy to think an endurance racer would benefit from SRF where others might not?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MaddMatt &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'm sure that stuff is good, but until Ford HD lets me down, I'm happy spending $3/bottle....</TD></TR></TABLE>

agreed.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TeamSlowdotOrg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Am I crazy to think an endurance racer would benefit from SRF where others might not? </TD></TR></TABLE>

Realtime Racing is one of the many racing teams that I have seen using Castrol SRF. They are certainly not running endurance races.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MaddMatt &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I can't seem to boil the Ford fluid at either CMP or VIR-south, 2 of the hardest tracks on brakes in the Mid-Atlantic.

I'm sure that stuff is good, but until Ford HD lets me down, I'm happy spending $3/bottle....</TD></TR></TABLE>

Another Z managed to boil Ford HD at Mid-Ohio the other weekend, and he was lighter on the brakes than I was. I've had decent luck with SuperBlue / Typ200, but I managed to boil that as well. Then again, my car is several hundred pounds heavier than most of your Hondas and carries a little more speed down the straight.

Does this Cobalt XRF really exist? I'm quite interested in trying it...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by John &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Does this Cobalt XRF really exist? I'm quite interested in trying it...</TD></TR></TABLE>

I've always thought it was repackaged Neo anyway.

 

I'm just saying, a lot of people use the cheaper stuff and it works fine for them, but it seems to me that a good high wet boiling point would give the largest benefit in a situation where you can't change the fluid after every hour of racing.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TeamSlowdotOrg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">but it seems to me that a good high wet boiling point would give the largest benefit in a situation where you can't change the fluid after every hour of racing. </TD></TR></TABLE>

I think the advertised "wet" boiling point is BS. Your best bet is going off the dry numbers and just making sure your fluid is fresh.

 

I have been using Castrol SRF for about 8 years now. I do 20-30 autocrosses per season, and usually get out for at least 3-4 track days. I leave the stuff in the car for 18-24 months (I know the bottle says 18 months max). I have never needed to bleed my brakes. Period. The only reason I change the fluid is because of the limitation on the bottle.

 

Interesting thread.

When I post the list of brake fluids in the future, I'll try to remember to remove the Cobalt fluid and add these newer fluids. Thanks for the research.

I'm surprised so much comment is being made about wet boiling temperatures. I'm with siisgood00. I try to keep my brake fluid fresh (flushed within the previous 6-8 months of any time I'm on the track, which means once a year for those of us who hibernate in winter) and I just worry about dry boiling temperatures.

For those who worry about the cost, I would suggest you keep things in perspective. Yes, one brake fluid may cost 2-3 times as much as another - but the difference might be only $10-15 for a single flush which lasts for an entire season, and that might give you an extra 50-60 degrees of boiling protection. That's not much money compared to the possibility of screwing up a track weekend that usually costs you anywhere from $300 to $1500, when you consider registration costs, lodging, meals, tires, brake pads, gas, etc. Hey, if you're confident that you'll never boil your brake fluid, then feel free to use the cheapest brake fluid you can find. Those of us who have boiled it before, understand that saving a few bucks on brake fluid could come back to haunt you. Your money, your car, your decision, your risk.

 

Price of the Valvoline Synpower fluid: $4.99/quart at your local Autozone.

My choice of fluid.

 

The Cobalt Fluid was great, and cheap, its a shame Andie couldn't keep it, but to keep it was more a headache then what it was worth.. I used it all last year, so yes, it did exist, but doesn't any longer, no matter how much I beg Andie..

I would recomend the Neo Synthetic since I can't get the Cobalt Fluid..

 

I've used NAPA DOT 4 and it kind of worked... though it could have been pad glazing too. I'm not sure if I'd be able to readily tell the difference. I've also used the MOTUL RBF600 and never had any problems with it.

One thing to note too, with the CRX I drive I've heard that the pad to rotor size is a bit unfriendly to cooling. So I do think it matters what type of car your driving too.

... brakes? who needs brakes? Gas on!

 

I have heard a few who Road Race agree that the Neo has a much better pedal feel over many other fluids. I for one will take what a "racer" has to say and use it as 1st hand useful info. Everyone has there opinions but I will be running Neo Syn. and Carbotech Xp8's...



http://www.bakerprecision.com/neobrk.htm

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nsxtasy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">For those who worry about the cost, I would suggest you keep things in perspective. Yes, one brake fluid may cost 2-3 times as much as another - but the difference might be only $10-15 for a single flush which lasts for an entire season...</TD></TR></TABLE>

Not sure I like the idea of keeping open liter bottles around that long. Once you break the seal on the larger bottle of fluid, aren't you essentially starting the same change interval clock on the bottle as you are on the fluid in the car?

Thawley

 

Yes you are. Something that has been alluded to but that we don't have available is the rate @ which the various fluids absorb moisture (from the air, etc). This would make a big difference.

For example, I doubt that very much that we have ever boiled the fluid in my Civic. The car does feel better if we give each corner a 'squirt' before the race weekend (using Motul). In realality, we are pretty much flushing out the old fluid. ATE, on the other hand, doesn't seem to need this treatment. One thing else nice about the ATE is that you can alternate between colors when bleeding.

BTW, did you see the article yet John. (It hasn't quite hit the newstands) Pics look great in the mag!! Pretty entertaining read. I especially like the part about you laughing while Josh is serving the stop & go.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by civicrr &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">BTW, did you see the article yet John. (It hasn't quite hit the newstands) Pics look great in the mag!! Pretty entertaining read. I especially like the part about you laughing while Josh is serving the stop & go.</TD></TR></TABLE>

No, I haven't gotten a copy yet. Looking forward to reading it. I felt kind of bad about laughing at Josh after I saw how bad he felt. Sounds like he's gotten over it, though. What a putz.

Thawley