I personally like the X. I dont have any real reason to say that.

Whats the facts/feelings that everyones feeling?



VS

 

The NASCAR bar provides better protection for the driver AFAIK

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by El Pollo Diablo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The NASCAR bar provides better protection for the driver AFAIK
</TD></TR></TABLE>The right impact at the right spot and suddenly you've got two pointy triangles intruding into the driver's space.

 

I have to agree with diablo. The nascar door provides far more protection for the driver. On certain vehicles, I have seen nascar doors on the driverside; then the "X" on the passengerside.

 

I went with NASCAR style, they not only offer increased protection, they provide the driver with more room.

 

The X provides better structural rigidity to the chassis, but the NASCAR bars provide better protection for the driver. As a compromise, you can NASCAR bar the driver's side and X the passenger's.

Warren

 

Its seems to me that it would be possiable if hit right where the X comes togther for that to move in towards the driver.. but I no nothing about cage building so that could be completly off base.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Solracer &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Its seems to me that it would be possiable if hit right where the X comes togther for that to move in towards the driver.. but I no nothing about cage building so that could be completly off base.</TD></TR></TABLE>
not really.
I thought that was true as well but I was then told the 1 tube is uninterupted and the other is 2 halves. So its not like its 4 small pieces connecting together.

 

I have X bars that protrude out into the drivers side door... NASCAR style.

Provides extra room for the driver and is easier to get in and out of the car. I'm not to worried about something punching through what is effectively a tubular steel pyramid. If something does hit me hard enough to get through that... Well... I'm not sure it will matter all that much.

 

The only problem that bothers me about NASCAR bars is that you are messing with engineered crumple zones. By removing door structure and side impact beams (as most do with these bars) you possibly increase the risk to the driver in lower speed incidents.

Imagine a 20 MPH side impact. NASCAR bars would definitely be subjected to the full force of this and transfer it directly to the driver. The door and door impact protection in an x-bar car would possibly absorb the impact.

At high speeds x-bars would probably allow more intrusion than NASCAR bars.

 

The PTG BMWs use a X and NASCAR bars on the drivers side and just an X on the pax side.

 

ALMS Porsche's use NASCAR style bars towards the outside, and a "X" on the inside closest to the driver. Best of both worlds I guess. I'll have to aggree that NASCAR "style" (yes, Scott's bent X is NASCAR style) door bars offer much better driver protection over a simple flat "X".

$.02

PS, Isn't the SCCA going to mandate NASCAR style driver side door bars pretty soon?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Warren &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The X provides better structural rigidity to the chassis, but the NASCAR bars provide better protection for the driver. </TD></TR></TABLE>

I'd like to see some data to back that up.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Doctor CorteZ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I'd like to see some data to back that up.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

Well, you have a lot more material taking the impact with the NASCAR bars. It shouldn't take a rocket scientist to figure out which stronger...

The door bars from this Porsche GT3R are a nice solution I think.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Angry Joe &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Well, you have a lot more material taking the impact with the NASCAR bars. It shouldn't take a rocket scientist to figure out which stronger...
</TD></TR></TABLE>

I kant read.

oops.


Modified by Doctor CorteZ at 2:11 PM 4/7/2004

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by rickpeak &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The only problem that bothers me about NASCAR bars is that you are messing with engineered crumple zones. By removing door structure and side impact beams (as most do with these bars) you possibly increase the risk to the driver in lower speed incidents.

Imagine a 20 MPH side impact. NASCAR bars would definitely be subjected to the full force of this and transfer it directly to the driver. The door and door impact protection in an x-bar car would possibly absorb the impact.

At high speeds x-bars would probably allow more intrusion than NASCAR bars.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I can't speak for everyone, but my nASScar door bars were designed to retain the outer door beam in the shell of the door, so only the inner skin was cut (basically the brackets for the window) to allow for the bars. For what it's worth, I have an "X" on the passenger side.

I chose this configuration simply because it gives me more room to enter/exit the car and I have a greater buffer when seated in the car. However, an "X" that protrudes into the door would provide the same support. My bars are tied into the dash and harness bars on both sides, so I don't know if one really provides more support than the other.

 

doc, read what he said again. the part you quoted

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Buttcrack &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">doc, read what he said again. the part you quoted</TD></TR></TABLE>

yeah , I see that now.

I thought we were disagreeing , oops.

 

Well I decided on something of a hybrid.

It looks a little bit like this

Any comments? Thoughts?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Want2race &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Any comments? Thoughts?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Just make sure you either have the door bars attach directly to the main hoop and a-pillar, or you check your rule book to make sure those attachment points are legal for your class. As for the design, I don't see any reason why an "X" with a nASScar-style bend into the door wouldn't be just fine.

 

The new GT3rsr's come with a nascar/xbrace 2 in one! do that!

 

put two triangles end to end and tell me where the weak point is.

 

What Travis said. Those barz attach to the u0000nibody. Attach them the usual way and it looks like a nice alternative.

$.02

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by johng &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Those barz attach to the u0000nibody. </TD></TR></TABLE>

it appears they're going thru the unibody , a design similar to what I'm going to run.

I'd need to see another pic though to be sure...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Doctor CorteZ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

it appears they're going thru the unibody , a design similar to what I'm going to run.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Do any GCR/CCR roll cage rules specifically permit going through the unibody?


On this doubling up of X bracing and door filling bars (not sure many of these really adhere to any style of NASCAR door bar protection ??) I would think twice about it personally - if the outer deforms into the car and your elbow just happens to be outside the inner, I think you are going to be in a f**load of hurt.