Safe REV limit with Mugen chip???
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From: New Zealand/ Land of JDM
Safe REV limit with Mugen chip???
I recently pickup a mugen chip for my lude,
it changed the fuel maps, took the speed cut away, and raised the rev limit to 9000rpm
i noticed wen i go over 8400rpm, my lude starts sounding like my friends type r tegra.... i stil feel the power, ive gained an extra 12-14kph out of everygear but then i heard the saying...induction noise? i was wondering if this is the noise i was hearing, n wondering if induction noise is good or bad?
ive got the biger fuel pump, fuel presure regulator, msd coil,enlargd throttle body, platnium plugs, extracters, simota air intake, and the only internals done are high compression pistons,
it changed the fuel maps, took the speed cut away, and raised the rev limit to 9000rpm
i noticed wen i go over 8400rpm, my lude starts sounding like my friends type r tegra.... i stil feel the power, ive gained an extra 12-14kph out of everygear but then i heard the saying...induction noise? i was wondering if this is the noise i was hearing, n wondering if induction noise is good or bad?
ive got the biger fuel pump, fuel presure regulator, msd coil,enlargd throttle body, platnium plugs, extracters, simota air intake, and the only internals done are high compression pistons,
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From: SOCAL
Re: Safe REV limit with Mugen chip??? (americ_ian)
I wouldn't be revving the motor that high without some descent valve springs. Are you sure that your motor is even making power that high in the RPM rang? I'd be very cautious of revving that high if I were you.
Re: Safe REV limit with Mugen chip??? (95 lude)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 95 lude »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Give it couple months till that motor is blown</TD></TR></TABLE>
HAHAHA. I agree. It still makes me laugh hearing people rev their cars past 7500rpms. To this day, I still don't get it. They are actually messing up their engines and are going slower.
HAHAHA. I agree. It still makes me laugh hearing people rev their cars past 7500rpms. To this day, I still don't get it. They are actually messing up their engines and are going slower.
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From: New York
Re: Safe REV limit with Mugen chip??? (americ_ian)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by americ_ian »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I recently pickup a mugen chip for my lude,
it changed the fuel maps, took the speed cut away, and raised the rev limit to 9000rpm</TD></TR></TABLE>
why?
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i noticed wen i go over 8400rpm, my lude starts sounding like my friends type r tegra.... i stil feel the power, ive gained an extra 12-14kph out of everygear but then i heard the saying...induction noise? i was wondering if this is the noise i was hearing, n wondering if induction noise is good or bad?</TD></TR></TABLE>
We cant hear the noise, so how are we supposed to say if it is "good" or not? My guess is no, its not good, you're playing with fire.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">ive got the biger fuel pump, fuel presure regulator, msd coil,enlargd throttle body, platnium plugs, extracters, simota air intake, and the only internals done are high compression pistons,
</TD></TR></TABLE>
And what does that mean? None of that has any bearing on where your rev limit should be.
I'd love to see a dyno chart of a stock cam, stock header, h22a revving to 9k
at 6800 it takes a nose dive in WHP, I cant even imagine what 9k is, lol, 120whp anyone? lol
it changed the fuel maps, took the speed cut away, and raised the rev limit to 9000rpm</TD></TR></TABLE>
why?
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i noticed wen i go over 8400rpm, my lude starts sounding like my friends type r tegra.... i stil feel the power, ive gained an extra 12-14kph out of everygear but then i heard the saying...induction noise? i was wondering if this is the noise i was hearing, n wondering if induction noise is good or bad?</TD></TR></TABLE>
We cant hear the noise, so how are we supposed to say if it is "good" or not? My guess is no, its not good, you're playing with fire.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">ive got the biger fuel pump, fuel presure regulator, msd coil,enlargd throttle body, platnium plugs, extracters, simota air intake, and the only internals done are high compression pistons,
</TD></TR></TABLE>
And what does that mean? None of that has any bearing on where your rev limit should be.
I'd love to see a dyno chart of a stock cam, stock header, h22a revving to 9k
at 6800 it takes a nose dive in WHP, I cant even imagine what 9k is, lol, 120whp anyone? lol
Joined: Mar 2004
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From: Austin, tx
Re: Safe REV limit with Mugen chip??? (americ_ian)
It depends on what car you are driving and what ECU you have installed. If you are driving a 5th generation prelude with a P13 ECU, you'll detonate in a little under 100 miles. The 5th generation prelude injectors are the wrong size (270cc, saturate vs 345cc, peak and hold in the 4th gen). Not to mention, the Mugen chips are known for having extremely aggressive fuel maps. I'd HIGHLY recommend an A/F gauge install immediately so you'll know how lean you are running. Once you know how bad the mixture is off, you'll know how much you have to rechip it. Not all MUGENSKUNK2SPOONKSROM roms work out of the box the best. You have to rechip them to gain the performance you need. I'd also not recommend reving the car much past 7700, the stock redline. Just because the chip raised the limit doesn't mean the engine can support it.
This is akin to buying .45 caliber bullets for a .22 handgun. Sure, you have bigger bullets, but you don't have the hardware to fire them.
This is akin to buying .45 caliber bullets for a .22 handgun. Sure, you have bigger bullets, but you don't have the hardware to fire them.
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Re: Safe REV limit with Mugen chip??? (AndyD)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by AndyD »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
HAHAHA. I agree. It still makes me laugh hearing people rev their cars past 7500rpms. To this day, I still don't get it. They are actually messing up their engines and are going slower. </TD></TR></TABLE>
actually it depends really on which way you look at "7500rpms".
if you mean 7500rpms off the tach(which is incorrect) then in a straight line(for instance drag racing) it is better to shift right before fuel cut to land the next shift in vtec, and in the better part of the powerband. thus the reason why we have a 4.266 final drive. if we weren't meant to shift high we would have an f series final drive or even a d series final drive of close to 3.5.
I laugh when people say that it doesn't do you any good to rev it beyond redline. at the drag strip. you have to. if you shift at redline at the track you will barely make it into vtec in 2nd gear if you are good.
look at a dyno and tell me would you rather start at 5000 or 5600 rpms's at the track when you shift to 2nd?
for me. i bury the tach and shift at 8 on the tach(usually between 7600-7900 on the vafc once getting 8,034) with my stock p13.
when i use my p72 ecu (when it's tuned) i'll usually go to 8300ish before shifting.
It's not the revs that will kill a motor, it's the tuner and driver.
HAHAHA. I agree. It still makes me laugh hearing people rev their cars past 7500rpms. To this day, I still don't get it. They are actually messing up their engines and are going slower.
</TD></TR></TABLE>actually it depends really on which way you look at "7500rpms".
if you mean 7500rpms off the tach(which is incorrect) then in a straight line(for instance drag racing) it is better to shift right before fuel cut to land the next shift in vtec, and in the better part of the powerband. thus the reason why we have a 4.266 final drive. if we weren't meant to shift high we would have an f series final drive or even a d series final drive of close to 3.5.
I laugh when people say that it doesn't do you any good to rev it beyond redline. at the drag strip. you have to. if you shift at redline at the track you will barely make it into vtec in 2nd gear if you are good.
look at a dyno and tell me would you rather start at 5000 or 5600 rpms's at the track when you shift to 2nd?
for me. i bury the tach and shift at 8 on the tach(usually between 7600-7900 on the vafc once getting 8,034) with my stock p13.
when i use my p72 ecu (when it's tuned) i'll usually go to 8300ish before shifting.
It's not the revs that will kill a motor, it's the tuner and driver.
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From: Austin, tx
Re: Safe REV limit with Mugen chip??? (see_our_vtec)
I believe the original poster was asking the SAFE values for redline for his particular car. We can all pretty much agree that without significant work to the internals, 7700 is going to be the "safe" redline. And that's 7700 on HIS tach, not actual from a VAFC.
When I drop to 2nd from around 7800 RPM, I land in 2nd gear with VTEC open. Going beyond 7800 buys me little as I'm not drag racing. When autocrossing, I'm usually shifting at whatever the turns dictate, not based on a rev limiter.
As far as VTEC engagement points, if you are using a properly tuned P72, you should have VTEC set to engage around 4600. Depending on how wildly you set your fuel maps to begin with, the GSR ECU handles fuel on the top better than a P13. There are dyno results on IR.com to back this up. Essentially, you scream up to about 4600, drop down a BUNCH, and then scream up to around 7800. The lag feels bad, but you'll thank me on the top end.
Seeing as how I drive a 5th generation Prelude, it doesn't matter what ECU I use, it'll always have shitty fuel maps due to their inability to be modified accurately. P28 or P72 is the way to go.
When I drop to 2nd from around 7800 RPM, I land in 2nd gear with VTEC open. Going beyond 7800 buys me little as I'm not drag racing. When autocrossing, I'm usually shifting at whatever the turns dictate, not based on a rev limiter.
As far as VTEC engagement points, if you are using a properly tuned P72, you should have VTEC set to engage around 4600. Depending on how wildly you set your fuel maps to begin with, the GSR ECU handles fuel on the top better than a P13. There are dyno results on IR.com to back this up. Essentially, you scream up to about 4600, drop down a BUNCH, and then scream up to around 7800. The lag feels bad, but you'll thank me on the top end.
Seeing as how I drive a 5th generation Prelude, it doesn't matter what ECU I use, it'll always have shitty fuel maps due to their inability to be modified accurately. P28 or P72 is the way to go.
Re: Safe REV limit with Mugen chip??? (see_our_vtec)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by see_our_vtec »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I laugh when people say that it doesn't do you any good to rev it beyond redline. at the drag strip. you have to. if you shift at redline at the track you will barely make it into vtec in 2nd gear if you are good.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Not everyone is into drag racing.
You shift where you want. My car will NEVER see past 7500 rpms (unless I money shift it.
) IMO, there is no reason to tax the motor that much. But that is my opinion. I don't live my life a 1/4 mile at a time.
I laugh when people say that it doesn't do you any good to rev it beyond redline. at the drag strip. you have to. if you shift at redline at the track you will barely make it into vtec in 2nd gear if you are good.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Not everyone is into drag racing.
You shift where you want. My car will NEVER see past 7500 rpms (unless I money shift it.
) IMO, there is no reason to tax the motor that much. But that is my opinion. I don't live my life a 1/4 mile at a time.
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Re: Safe REV limit with Mugen chip??? (AndyD)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by AndyD »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Not everyone is into drag racing.
You shift where you want. My car will NEVER see past 7500 rpms (unless I money shift it. ) IMO, there is no reason to tax the motor that much. But that is my opinion. I don't live my life a 1/4 mile at a time. </TD></TR></TABLE>
well thats fine. everyone has their own cup of tea. some can afford it. some can't. some want to, some don't. everyone has their own opinions and i respect that.
and by the way. the money shift is fun done it before. and was costly. 
it was cool to see the needle go off the tach and point into the speedo. one thing is though. i wasn't upset. i figured it was time to do something else with it.
Not everyone is into drag racing.
You shift where you want. My car will NEVER see past 7500 rpms (unless I money shift it.
) IMO, there is no reason to tax the motor that much. But that is my opinion. I don't live my life a 1/4 mile at a time. </TD></TR></TABLE>well thats fine. everyone has their own cup of tea. some can afford it. some can't. some want to, some don't. everyone has their own opinions and i respect that.
and by the way. the money shift is fun
done it before. and was costly. it was cool to see the needle go off the tach and point into the speedo. one thing is though. i wasn't upset. i figured it was time to do something else with it.
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From: East Village, NYC
Re: Safe REV limit with Mugen chip??? (see_our_vtec)
I would use a mugen chipped ecu to run my toaster, let alone my h22a. It absolutely blows you are better off with stock, or stock with a V-AFC. UNless you have something special done to the engine you're going to hit peak power at 7000 rpms any so revving over 7500 is pointless and just hurts your motor.
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Except when you rev to 8000, it drops to 6500 witch happens to be pretty close to your peak power. Which is better? Shifting at peak power, and let the rpms raise 2000 till your at your peak again? or waiting to shift a little longer, and shift directly into the top o' de power band?? hmmm
THOUGH this doesnt count for stock motors, with my skunk2 stage2 cams, i preffer to wait till 8000 to shift. I mean the power might drop to 190 hp between 7800 and 8400, but from 6000 to 7800 its a little more difference.
again, thats just my opinion. All you stock-motor fools, shift at 7200 or less.
THOUGH this doesnt count for stock motors, with my skunk2 stage2 cams, i preffer to wait till 8000 to shift. I mean the power might drop to 190 hp between 7800 and 8400, but from 6000 to 7800 its a little more difference.
again, thats just my opinion. All you stock-motor fools, shift at 7200 or less.
Joined: Mar 2004
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From: Austin, tx
Re: Safe REV limit with Mugen chip??? (satan_srv)
Unfortunately, satan is correct. The Mugen P13 ROM is extremely difficult on your drivetrain. You're gonna blow something, period. If you have more than a couple grand invested in your car, you may as well get the Hondata and move on. I hate selling out as much as the next guy....I'm a DIY kinda guy. But in this case, going Hondata is gonna be the best way out.
LudeHatchH22a, satan, and vinueuro are correct. On stock internals, shift @ ~7700. Shifting earlier than that is fine, but you'll end up 300-400RPM short of VTEC on the upshift. Your stock revlimit on a 5th generation prelude is 7700. Use it.
On modified internals, get on a dyno, and find your correct shift points.
LudeHatchH22a, satan, and vinueuro are correct. On stock internals, shift @ ~7700. Shifting earlier than that is fine, but you'll end up 300-400RPM short of VTEC on the upshift. Your stock revlimit on a 5th generation prelude is 7700. Use it.
On modified internals, get on a dyno, and find your correct shift points.
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From: Charleston, SC
Re: (Cottonwoodz)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Cottonwoodz »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I will bet my lude to, anyone that wants to race. I shift at 7900 RPMs, and you shift at 7400 Rpms, and I bet you everytime..
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Ok, so you are going to bet. What's next? Are you willing to bet me too? I'll only take mine up to 7200 rpm's... and thats without vtack
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Ok, so you are going to bet. What's next? Are you willing to bet me too? I'll only take mine up to 7200 rpm's... and thats without vtack
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From: ROCKFORD, IL
Re: (PrecisionH23a)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PrecisionH23a »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Ok, so you are going to bet. What's next? Are you willing to bet me too? I'll only take mine up to 7200 rpm's... and thats without vtack </TD></TR></TABLE>
Anytime you want... PM me..........
Ok, so you are going to bet. What's next? Are you willing to bet me too? I'll only take mine up to 7200 rpm's... and thats without vtack
</TD></TR></TABLE>Anytime you want... PM me..........
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From: Chucktown, SC
Re: (Cottonwoodz)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Cottonwoodz »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Anytime you want... PM me..........
</TD></TR></TABLE>You want to race Precision? HAHAHA. I hope you have money to spare. he won't beat you. He will destroy you. Whats your setup? Hp? Tq? Oh well. It doesn't matter. You won't be able to see him after you race because he will be so far ahead of you it won't be funny. I hope this race does happen!!!
Anytime you want... PM me..........
</TD></TR></TABLE>You want to race Precision? HAHAHA. I hope you have money to spare. he won't beat you. He will destroy you. Whats your setup? Hp? Tq? Oh well. It doesn't matter. You won't be able to see him after you race because he will be so far ahead of you it won't be funny. I hope this race does happen!!!
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From: five five nine, ca, usa
Re: Safe REV limit with Mugen chip??? (see_our_vtec)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by see_our_vtec »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I laugh when people say that it doesn't do you any good to rev it beyond redline. at the drag strip. you have to. if you shift at redline at the track you will barely make it into vtec in 2nd gear if you are good.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
i shift at 7k and still be in VTEC (with a shitty *** clutch)
I laugh when people say that it doesn't do you any good to rev it beyond redline. at the drag strip. you have to. if you shift at redline at the track you will barely make it into vtec in 2nd gear if you are good.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
i shift at 7k and still be in VTEC
(with a shitty *** clutch)
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Re: Safe REV limit with Mugen chip??? (ludeR917)
if you **** fast enough and not "granny" shift you can hit back into vtec by just takin it to 75 i vtec to vtec shifting at 7200 93jdm in 90 accord 6puck clutch it hits hard but im still in vtec
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From: Betonwüsten, USA
Re: (Cottonwoodz)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PrecisionH23a »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Ok, so you are going to bet. What's next? Are you willing to bet me too? I'll only take mine up to 7200 rpm's... and thats without vtec </TD></TR></TABLE>
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Cottonwoodz »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Anytime you want... PM me..........</TD></TR></TABLE>
Hahahahaha! Dumbass. I'd pay money to see that. You do realize that he has got more than twice the power you got right? hahaha
Ok, so you are going to bet. What's next? Are you willing to bet me too? I'll only take mine up to 7200 rpm's... and thats without vtec </TD></TR></TABLE>
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Cottonwoodz »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Anytime you want... PM me..........</TD></TR></TABLE>
Hahahahaha! Dumbass. I'd pay money to see that. You do realize that he has got more than twice the power you got right? hahaha
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[Quote]=THOUGH this doesnt count for stock motors, with my skunk2 stage2 cams, i preffer to wait till 8000 to shift. I mean the power might drop to 190 hp between 7800 and 8400, but from 6000 to 7800 its a little more difference.
again, thats just my opinion. All you stock-motor fools, shift at 7200 or less.=[Quote]
i said that..
[Quote]=LudeHatchH22a, satan, and vinueuro are correct. On stock internals, shift @ ~7700. Shifting earlier than that is fine, but you'll end up 300-400RPM short of VTEC on the upshift. Your stock revlimit on a 5th generation prelude is 7700. Use it. =[Quote]
i do agree, anyone with stock internals shoulnt even want to go over the stock rev limiter. so we are all correct
But the mugen chip is good for people like me with a obd1 that has revlimiter at 7300 or whatever it is, and have acctually internal mods. Just to get rid of the speed limiter also. I mean the fuel maps isnt used, its tuned with a vafc, but the ignition map helped a little too. So whats wrong with that?? 20 bucks for...higher rev limiter(from 7300 thats not even at peak power) and no speed limiter (i think it was 115 or 125, which is at the top of 4th gear before i even hit the 7300rpm rev limiter) and a better ignition map. AGAIN for all ya flamers, you still have to dyno to tune the fuel.
just my opinion, but 20 bucks vs 200, ill take the cheap way for now till i can afford a AEM EMS
again before i get flames, it isnt just a bolt in chip that you can get hp off, you have to back it up with more tuning to make sure its safe, and if you dont have any internals, you dont want to go over the stock rev limiter anyways.
and [Quote]=i noticed wen i go over 8400rpm, my lude starts sounding like my friends type r tegra.... =[Quote]
HAHAHAHA thats your valves floating probably!!!! i wouldnt keep doing that
again, thats just my opinion. All you stock-motor fools, shift at 7200 or less.=[Quote]
i said that..
[Quote]=LudeHatchH22a, satan, and vinueuro are correct. On stock internals, shift @ ~7700. Shifting earlier than that is fine, but you'll end up 300-400RPM short of VTEC on the upshift. Your stock revlimit on a 5th generation prelude is 7700. Use it. =[Quote]
i do agree, anyone with stock internals shoulnt even want to go over the stock rev limiter. so we are all correct
But the mugen chip is good for people like me with a obd1 that has revlimiter at 7300 or whatever it is, and have acctually internal mods. Just to get rid of the speed limiter also. I mean the fuel maps isnt used, its tuned with a vafc, but the ignition map helped a little too. So whats wrong with that?? 20 bucks for...higher rev limiter(from 7300 thats not even at peak power) and no speed limiter (i think it was 115 or 125, which is at the top of 4th gear before i even hit the 7300rpm rev limiter) and a better ignition map. AGAIN for all ya flamers, you still have to dyno to tune the fuel.
just my opinion, but 20 bucks vs 200, ill take the cheap way for now till i can afford a AEM EMS
again before i get flames, it isnt just a bolt in chip that you can get hp off, you have to back it up with more tuning to make sure its safe, and if you dont have any internals, you dont want to go over the stock rev limiter anyways.
and [Quote]=i noticed wen i go over 8400rpm, my lude starts sounding like my friends type r tegra.... =[Quote]
HAHAHAHA thats your valves floating probably!!!! i wouldnt keep doing that
