Only available in a 205/50-15

Anyone out there have any experience with it in a road race environment?
Are they out of the same mold as the R3S04? IOW - is it as wide as the S04. Which work perfect on my car.

Contemplating this vs the shaved Toyo.

Price - Hoosier $142 vs Toyo (shaved) $140

Todd at Frisbyracetire.com is saying 60-70% of the life of the Toyo but faster.

Nash - who wishes he had the money to purchase shaved toyo's a month ago when there wasn't a 3 week national backorder.

 

Same mold, slightly harder compound than the other 04s.
Faster than the Toyos (Feedback from the SM frontrunners at last years ARRC).

Toyos are backordered already huh?
Excellent.

 

Make sure your region allows Hoosier before buying them. Mine only allows Toyo RA-1s size 205-50-15. Just a warning that may or may not matter in your region.

Diane

Edit: I ordered mine in February so I didn't have availability problems. Didn't expect them to start in April though. Yikes!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Catch 22 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Toyos are backordered already huh?
Excellent.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

I think that only applies to the SM 15" tires. For now I think the 14" sizes are available.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by r2x &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Make sure your region allows Hoosier before buying them. Mine only allows Toyo RA-1s size 205-50-15. Just a warning that may or may not matter in your region.

Diane

Edit: I ordered mine in February so I didn't have availability problems. Didn't expect them to start in April though. Yikes!</TD></TR></TABLE>

I will be running them on my Honda... not a Miata... so no worries for me . And yes as with many other regions the NW has adopted the RA1 as the spec tire.

Nash

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by bulldog_RS20 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I think that only applies to the SM 15" tires. For now I think the 14" sizes are available.</TD></TR></TABLE>

14'' are no longer allowed

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tnord &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

14'' are no longer allowed</TD></TR></TABLE>

Most Honda ITA and Prod cars are on the 14's. The ITA Miatas can run the 14's as well. I was pointing out that the non-SM Toyo (14") doesn't appear to have a nation-wide backlog.

 

i should have clarified:

14'' wheels are no longer allowed in SM

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Catch 22 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Same mold, slightly harder compound than the other 04s.
Faster than the Toyos (Feedback from the SM frontrunners at last years ARRC).
</TD></TR></TABLE>

There you go Nash. Jump on it... you got 3 weeks 'til the double regional.

 

I was talking to a sales guy at Tire Rack a few weeks ago and asked about this tire and was told that it was only a rumor. Having seen the printed info from Hoosier last fall I knew that was not correct. I thought they might make a good DE tire. Has anyone heard of any regions making them a SM tire?

 

The SM Compound Hoosier was an approved tire for Spec Miata at the ARRC in 2003. From my understanding it was a trial thing. SEDiv voted it down as an approved tire over the winter (heard this at Daytona from some SM guys back around the beginning of Feb). In talking to a front running SM driver at the ARRC, the SM compound Hoosier was a tenth or two slower than the RA-1. I am not sure who was on what for the race itself (the guy I was talking to about it never made it to S/F). It is not the same compound as the R3S04 that is now available in most sizes for IT cars. The latter (R3S04) is a damned impressive tire and our weekend in November makes me believe it will wear significantly better than the R3S03.

 

The podium finishers at the ARRC (IIRC) were on the Hoosiers. Several SM drivers said that the Hoosier was a bit faster than the Toyo, but that could have been due to the excellent weather conditions.
At any rate, both tires cost about the same and are extremely close in performance.

Two other front running SEDIV SM drivers were telling me at VIR a couple of weeks ago that they were very disappointed at the Hoosier being unapproved. The Toyo 205/50/15 shortage is inevitable (already started?) and the Hoosier was by no means a class dominating product. It was more a matter (in one very active SM driver's opinion) of people being scared of "Hoosier" than anything else. In other words, cost and performance were there, the name scared people off.

 

there is all kinds of data, opinions, sales pitches, etc over on the spec miata site. i can dig it up if you like.

this one of the better threads on it i think.

http://www.specmiata.com/cgi-b...00274

there's more to the spec tire issue than just speed and cost. the need for rain tires, heat cycles, camber angles, wear on other components, etc need to be considered. also, at least with the kook and toyo, you don't need to shave them and this years rains become next years dry tire.

basically, that thread says that the hoosier is faster, and ultimately costs more to run than our other options.

 

I got a call from my tire guy, and my 14" Toyos will be here next week. I asked him to check on the 205/50-15 availability currently, and he called me back and said it would be 4-6 weeks now.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JHill &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I got a call from my tire guy, and my 14" Toyos will be here next week. I asked him to check on the 205/50-15 availability currently, and he called me back and said it would be 4-6 weeks now.</TD></TR></TABLE>

4-6 weeks... I'm hosed - crapola

Nash

 

Nash,

Buy the Hooisers, they'll get here faster and you'll get "there" faster.

 

From Rodney at Appalachian Tire (and Rodney is all-knowing when it comes to Hoosiers, and race tires in general really)...

The SM Hoosier is the same tire as the rest of the 04 Hoosiers, just at a reduced cost. All other information that has been widely spread about it being a different compound is incorrect.
It was simply an effort by Hoosier to get into the SM market, which seems to have failed.

So, if you run 205/50/15, I'd jump all over this. You're getting the exact same tire that others are paying $20 more, and I'm guessing that this won't be around very long since Hoosiers are banned from SM in many parts of the country.

As for the SM drivers from the ARRC saying the SM Hoosier was only slightly faster than the Toyo... I can now only assume that there was some sand bagging going on to try to get it approved. Either that of the Toyo does actually work as well as the Hoosier on a SM chassis. On an ITA CRX (for example), the Hoosier 04 is significantly faster than both the 03 Hoosier and the Toyo.

I dunno... All I know is if I ran 205/50/15 tires I'd be stockpiling these Hoosiers at $142 each.

 

I have been incorrect then. I had read prior to/around their release (could have sworn it was at Hoosier's site itself) that it was a tire they made from what they learned in developing the (assuming this year's) Grand Am tire and the new R3S04. Perhaps its similar phrasing that confused others as well.

Yeah, if it is the same thing we ran on last fall, I'd definately buy a few sets if I was running a 205-15, especially at 140ish a tire.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Catch 22 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">From Rodney at Appalachian Tire (and Rodney is all-knowing when it comes to Hoosiers, and race tires in general really)...

The SM Hoosier is the same tire as the rest of the 04 Hoosiers, just at a reduced cost. All other information that has been widely spread about it being a different compound is incorrect.
It was simply an effort by Hoosier to get into the SM market, which seems to have failed.

So, if you run 205/50/15, I'd jump all over this. You're getting the exact same tire that others are paying $20 more, and I'm guessing that this won't be around very long since Hoosiers are banned from SM in many parts of the country.

As for the SM drivers from the ARRC saying the SM Hoosier was only slightly faster than the Toyo... I can now only assume that there was some sand bagging going on to try to get it approved. Either that of the Toyo does actually work as well as the Hoosier on a SM chassis. On an ITA CRX (for example), the Hoosier 04 is significantly faster than both the 03 Hoosier and the Toyo.

I dunno... All I know is if I ran 205/50/15 tires I'd be stockpiling these Hoosiers at $142 each.</TD></TR></TABLE>

hoosier at least got their foot in the door. you can run hoosiers in cendiv and rocky mountain division. after a full season of people running them, we will really find out if they heat cycle out, and wear characteristics. if they are faster (which they have proven to be), don't heat cycle out (which we don't know), wear the same (probably not, at least not with our camber restriction), and cost the same (yup), as the other tires, then they'll be accepted in next year, especially if toyo pisses people off with tire shortages.

you can't expect us to approve a tire based on claims by the manufacturer/distributers.

all testing i've heard of on the miata is that the SM hoosier does wear better than the 03, suggesting different compounds. is it possible that appalachian has a stockpile of these things and is telling people that it's the same compound to try and get rid of them?? i dunno, just a thought. either way, it's still a good price for a good tire.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tnord &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
you can't expect us to approve a tire based on claims by the manufacturer/distributers.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Why not? other divisions did... I suppose this way of thinking is fine as long as everyone doesn't start subscribing to it, else nothing new would ever be approved.


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tnord &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
all testing i've heard of on the miata is that the SM hoosier does wear better than the 03, suggesting different compounds. is it possible that appalachian has a stockpile of these things and is telling people that it's the same compound to try and get rid of them?? i dunno, just a thought. either way, it's still a good price for a good tire.</TD></TR></TABLE>

You quoted him, but apparently didn't pay close enough attention to what he actually posted. "The SM Hoosier is the same tire as the rest of the 04 Hoosiers" - which would clearly make it a different compound than the 03's.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JeffS &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Why not? other divisions did... I suppose this way of thinking is fine as long as everyone doesn't start subscribing to it, else nothing new would ever be approved.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

because the intent of this particular class is to provide close racing at a relatively low cost. very few people (outside of those with extra-deep pockets and tire deals) wants to change things to increase the cost of competing in the class. you can't make a fair assessment of the situation without adequate testing time. in this case there was not enough time from the release of the tire to the time we needed to decide on tire rules.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
You quoted him, but apparently didn't pay close enough attention to what he actually posted. "The SM Hoosier is the same tire as the rest of the 04 Hoosiers" - which would clearly make it a different compound than the 03's. </TD></TR></TABLE>

i know it's different than the 03's. what hoosier is trying to sell us on is that the SM tire is a different compound than the 04, made to meet the needs of longer life for miata drivers.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tnord &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">because the intent of this particular class is to provide close racing at a relatively low cost. very few people (outside of those with extra-deep pockets and tire deals) wants to change things to increase the cost of competing in the class.</TD></TR></TABLE>



I dont see why anyone thinks that SM is cheaper than any other IT car.

Its not a low cost alternative.. Its just... an alternative.

 

because there are more than 3 cars to race with.

unlike ITA/ITB/ITC, which, at least in this area, i haven't seen too many of. whoopee, you placed 2nd in ITA.......oh wait, there were only 3 cars to start with. ITS fields seem to be of fairly substantial size, but those things are more expensive.

the third place finisher this past weekend has under 10k into his car.

annual operating costs are lower as well, which actually just dropped because the prices of our rotors were just slashed by over 1/2. also there are a ton of these things around now, so supply might be creeping past demand, lowering the cost of entrance also.

1000+ drivers think there's something good happening here.


Modified by tnord at 7:38 PM 4/8/2004

 

Not again.
I refuse to go into the costs of competing in SM again. That dead horse is rotted.

In retrospect I'm not sure Hoosier officially ever claimed that the SM tire was a different compound from the other 04s. What they did seem to do is let the rumour spread that it was without stopping it.
Then the feedback from many drivers trying them at the ARRC was that they weren't all that much faster than the Toyos, further fueling the "harder compound" information.
Others running the new 04 in ITS and ITA were claiming HUGE improvements over the 03 Hoosier, which would equate to really huge improvements over the Toyo.
So either some of the Spec Miata guys were hedging a bit with the feedback trying to get buy-in for the Hoosier, or the suspension adjustment limits in SM really do make it not all that much better than a Toyo on those cars.

I dunno, but thats a whole lotta fast tire for $142 each.
Get 'em while you can.

 

i have found evidence that the SM tire and the RS304 is the same compound here:

http://www.specmiata.com/cgi-b...00142

although it seems as though hoosier is marketing it as a SM only tire, which to me, means a different compound since there is nothing special about the size:

http://www.hoosiertire.com/spcmiata.HTM

so honda guys.........stock up and save $, because we aren't going to be buying many