With forged pistons not working with FRM sleeves, would having the piston sleeves coated in PC9 solve the problem? According to swaintech, they have done this with NSX sleeves and some Prelude's as well. Any reason on why this is either a good idea or bad idea?

 

Bad idea, i believe the pc9 coating is to reduce detonation.
I don't think it has to do anything with being able to use frm sleeves.
can anybody else back this up.

 

The pc9 coating is a ceramic coating for the piston skirts .i would say it would work,especially if you got the .003" thick coating.i would have went that route,but my block had a really deep scratch.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SKDRCR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Bad idea, i believe the pc9 coating is to reduce detonation.
I don't think it has to do anything with being able to use frm sleeves.
can anybody else back this up.</TD></TR></TABLE>
No, PC9 is for friction reduction. GoldCoat is for hotspot reduction.

Toretto, this should work. If I wanted forged pistons, I would take this route. I firmly believe that it will work, although I know of no one on any of the Honda boards who has proven it yet.

 

it's try-able... i wouldn't do it though lol

 

Hmm, i wonder how long the coating will last though.

 

if your engine is running correctly, it should last the life of the engine I'd assume. Being that the pistons are never to touch the cylinder walls.

 

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=416069

 

Yea, I have read that thread. Very informative. I guess the real problem is, nothing has been proven to work yet. Its risky. I know I am gonna have my pistons coated, but DPR will be building my motor. They told me that I wouldnt need to resleeve. From what I can remember, it sounded like they bore out the FRM sleeves enough that they can slide in some sort of liners. But it was way cheaper than normal, like $750 after all the machine work.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Toretto &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">From what I can remember, it sound like they bore out the FRM sleeves enough that they can slide in some sort of liners. But it was way cheaper than normal, like $750 after all the machine work.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Well, if you have liners installed then FRM becomes a moot point. Your original question was in regards to running with FRM.

 

Yea, but I am not exactly sure on what they are gonna do yet. For alot of people, I would assume they would simply have the FRM sleeves bored out, and then drop the forged pistons in. In which case, would the PC9 hold up? Thats all I was getting at. Just curious to hear if anyone knew a for sure reason why it wouldnt work.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Toretto &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">have the FRM sleeves bored out, and then drop the forged pistons in. </TD></TR></TABLE>
I'm pretty sure you can't just bore out the sleeve material and run a piston in a bare aluminum bore, if that's what you mean.

 

No, I just meant using oversized pistons with stock sleeves. Anyway, I emailed DPR out on the west coast, they have an east coast shop here in Ohio, and was told that I would have to resleeve the block. So the guy I talked to here in Ohio, must not have been familiar with the FRM sleeves.

 

id say drop swain tech an email, theres just not enough information out there, and no one has really tried it. what makes it even worse is that amount of people who say it wil work/ won't work is usually 50:50. i would say contact some people or engine builders that have used PC9 and get some more information.

i remember i was doing alot of research, honda found a way to run forged pistons with FRM they are doing it with the S2K. there are alot of different routes, just no one has ever taken them and proven it to work or not.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Toretto &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">No, I just meant using oversized pistons with stock sleeves. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Ok, that's what I thought you meant, but wanted to make sure.

I figured you had read the thread I posted above, but I threw it up there as a reminder of the risk, and as a reference to those who hadn't read it.

 

Thats cool sharkcohen, I think everyone who is thinking about building up their H22 should read that thread. Its got alot of great info.

 

hey toretto i was told the same thing by dpr, i'm outta findlay, i went up to see a friend in toledo and stoped into dpr and asked him a bunch of questions about it. He basically told me that they use a different material and they coat the piston skirt so that they are usable in the h22 frm block. I personally don't want to be a guiney pig though

 

Its the result of the two metals contacting with each other, so by applying PC9 on the side skirts, that problem is solved. The good thing about PC9 is that its extremely durable. They had a piston with over 200k miles on it, that had been coated with PC9, and it was still nice and black. The coating held up extremely well. I just have to wonder if its worth the risk. For anyone who is paying to have his engine built, it would be costly if it didnt work.

 

just figure out what the jun pistons are made of and ask them to make it out of that alloy. their pistons are forged and run in stock sleeves

 

jun piston are coated and made out of a harder (i think) alloy so they expand less

 

aren't jun Pistons just high silicone content?

 

Mike,

Thanks for writing. We have done a few sets of pistons running in that type of sleeve over the past few years. What we coated them with is our PC-9 coating. Most of the ones we have done ended up in Acura and Mercedes motors. I would guess we have done 10 sets over the past 3 years. Out of that, we heard no feed back on probably 7 of those customers, but the other three have said it worked great. About 2 months ago I had a Mercedes piston with the tin coating on it sent to us for evaluation. After hearing about the special exclusive coating they had on their pistons for many years, I was very disappointed when I finally saw what they were using. The coating was so weak that I could rub it off with an eraser from my desk top pencil. Compared to our PC-9 coating, the factory coating lacked toughness and lubricity. I would expect the PC-9 would not only be a suitable substitute for the factory coating, but it would be vastly superior. The few people who have offered feed back on this have confirmed this.

Richard
Swain Tech Coatings

 

So whose gonna be the h-series guinea pig?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SKDRCR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">So whose gonna be the h-series guinea pig?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Hmmm..... I have an H build coming up in a month or so, I may be willing to be a guinea pig. Well see when the time comes.

 

I can't try it now, but if/when the time comes for a rebuild, I would seriously consider it over sleeving. One thing to remember is that coating will only be one part of the equation. The piston to wall clearances will have to be carefully scrutinized, or the FRM probably won't last long at all.