So my brother is really wanting to get into autox this year. I'm trying to help him and explain what works and what doesn't. This is also his only car so I don't think he should get crazy with it.

He has a VW GTI (I think) anyways it's the 1.8 turbo version. I don't think doing engine work is going to help him right now. I figured he should do some mild suspension work to it without making it unbearable for daily use. Right now it rolls like crazy around turns(which is why I figure suspension work would be better then getting sticky tires first).

Well if anyone has any recomendations or has autox with this type of car I would appreciate any sugestions.

 

Read Forum FAQ

Evolution autocross school

 

I just looked through the faq and couldn't find anything on Evo school. I used search too.

Could anyone give more info about it?

 

Found some information elsewhere. Here is some info on the Evo driving school: http://autocross.com/evolution/

 

HAHA, Finally a thread on Honda-Tech I am qualified to answer. Being as I own 3 VW's and race 2 of them, my best advice I can give you if to have your brother just go out and get seat time. The more seat time he gets the better. If he really really wants to spend some money on the car then I would suggest a cup-kit type suspension, and roll bar, and some good tires (falken) I am assuming that since he has a 1.8t he has a Mk4. The one unfortunate thing with the Mk4 platform is that there are no provisions for setting camber (as far as I know). I have heard that there are a few thing being worked up but nothing is out yet.

Again, seat time is the best thing he can do for now, and if it is something he really is into then he should upgrade the car if that is what he really wants to do.

Good Luck

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by BluGTIVR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">HAHA, Finally a thread on Honda-Tech I am qualified to answer. Being as I own 3 VW's and race 2 of them, my best advice I can give you if to have your brother just go out and get seat time. The more seat time he gets the better. If he really really wants to spend some money on the car then I would suggest a cup-kit type suspension, and roll bar, and some good tires (falken) I am assuming that since he has a 1.8t he has a Mk4. The one unfortunate thing with the Mk4 platform is that there are no provisions for setting camber (as far as I know). I have heard that there are a few thing being worked up but nothing is out yet.

Again, seat time is the best thing he can do for now, and if it is something he really is into then he should upgrade the car if that is what he really wants to do.

Good Luck</TD></TR></TABLE>

yeah but those mkiv's are rolly fat pigs! i think everyone is right about seat time, and an evolution school is money very well spent, but once it gets to be time to actually pick a class and start making some changes, the first order of business would be tires, then a suspension (cupkit, or GC's and Bilsteins or Koni's or a full coilover setup if he wants one) and a rear sway. on a local level these things should be enough (coupled with driving skill) to be competitive on a local level.

last i read someone was trying to get progress or GC or some suspension manufacturer to make a camber kit for a mkiv, but as of right now there isn't anything in the way of camber adjustment, unless you want to mess around with the subframe...

 

After more seat time, the first mods to do to a 1.8T car are good 225-width tires (think Azenis, S-03s or something along those lines,) a rear swaybar (Neuspeed 28mm or the big Autotech or H&R bars are good), shocks/springs, and then, of course, a chip. Of course, the chip will put you beyond STS or GS, and that's up to him whether he wants to compete, or "merely" have fun.

I autocrossed my car for about 1.5 years before I moved to doing solely track days. I wish I had the rear swaybar on the car when I autocrossed it, as it truly transforms the handling of these cars. Really, it's that big of an improvement. Without it, it's very frustrating fighting the understeer all the time. With it, the car is much more willing to do what you ask it to (assuming you know how to ask.)

I run H&R coilovers on the track with the big Neuspeed rear bar on full-stiff. The car is a joy to drive with this setup. I've also swapped in front VWRacing control arm bushings, steel brake lines, Audi TT rotors, and some other bits. It's still fairly mild compared to other cars I meet at the track, but it works very well, is livable for everyday use, and pretty reliable.

-Adam

 

225/45/17 Azenis are good tires to start with. If he wants to stay GS, that's all he can do, IIRC. If he doesn't mind moving up a class or two, tell him the FIRST mod he should do is rear swaybar (Shine or Neuspeed), then full coilovers or a good shock/spring combo. H&R Cup kit is NOT a good alternative. A good spring/shock combo will cost about the same and give much better handling.

DON'T LOWER THE CAR MORE THAN ONE INCH!!. mk4 suspension design is from the factory. If it's lowered more than an inch, handling actually gets worse. If he doesn't believe this, tell him to go find the 20+page long thread in the suspension forum on VWVortex.

On a 1.8t, he really doesn't need any engine work since the car already has more than enough tq down low (rarely hear that on H-T, huh? ). Plus, because it's a turbo car it's too easy to jump up to SM with just 'minor' upgrades.

 

Do the Mark IV Golfs have the same weak and sloppy plastic shift linkage as the A2/A3 chassis? Plan on getting an all metal performance shifter mechanism for my dads A2 Jetta.

P.S. and why the heck does VW put reverse in the same pattern as first - once the stock shifting mechanism wears down its a guessing game of choosing either first or reverse...1st/reverse shift pattern sharing where you push down for reverse is the worse idea ever!!! At least do it like mercedes if you must use the 1st/reverse pattern (for whatever stupid reason) where you pull up for reverse...

VW A2/A3 shifting mechanism ... , VW A2/A3 mechanical reliability and relative ease to work on ...

 

Easiest thing to do is to go out and have fun at an event.

Next thing is buying a rulebook and deciding if he wants to build the car to a set of rules (the alternative is build whatever street car he wants and race wherever it fits).

One of the variants of the Street Touring classes should work well for the car. Fit the biggest Azenis allowed within the rules (225?). Do some mild suspension work (antiroll bar, springs, shocks) and call it a day.

 

Vracer: yes, we still have the plastic shift linkage. shifter feel is still notchy, nowhere near miata or s2k even with various custom adjustments or 'quality' short shifters. the 6spd in the 337/20th ann. are better than the older 5spd, or so I've heard. I'd hate to experience the 5spd, if my 6spd is supposed to be an 'improvement'

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by genxguy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Vracer: yes, we still have the plastic shift linkage. shifter feel is still notchy, nowhere near miata or s2k even with various custom adjustments or 'quality' short shifters. the 6spd in the 337/20th ann. are better than the older 5spd, or so I've heard. I'd hate to experience the 5spd, if my 6spd is supposed to be an 'improvement' </TD></TR></TABLE>

all i know is that the 5spd throw is so long that i could probably do a load of laundry in the amount of time it takes to shift.

one thing i do enjoy about actually driving a MKiv is that the steering wheel is much smaller than the lude. once the boaty suspension is replaced i think i'll have to campaign the 2.slow or have my sister or gf campaign it at the local auto-x. i've thought about the s2000 wheel, but my better senses scream at me that that $400 is better spent elsewhere, and they're right about that...

 

The standard 5-speed throws are quite long, but I prefer it over the short-shifters I've felt in other cars (DieselGeek, Neuspeed.) About it being "notchy..." I dunno. I rather like it and find it's easy to get the gear I want, when I want it. I don't know why these things are judged to be "better" or "worse" than the next car. To each his own.
-Adam

 

I ran my '01 GLS 1.8T four door in an autox once and at a DE once when the GSR had issues. The autox was on an old go-cart track and is very rough along with having some up and downhill sections. Other than the puny stock tires and considerable body roll, the real concern was that if a rear tire is in the air, common on VW's, the ABS tries to get the tire spinning again and when it does not the brakes turn basically off. They do still work but feel like power brakes with the assist not working. Since a number of the braking zones are in bumpy curves, this happened on about 1/3 of the time.

On track the major issues were tires and body roll. The car has to be driven with the understanding that the car is nose heavy and not interested in rotating. Lots of torque and little concern about being in the right gear made it surprisingly quick in a straight line. Oh yeah, the standard seats don't have much side support.