This is all IMHO but it may be interesting and/or beneficial to you,

I have no facts or figures, no dyno's or graphs. But I always see this topic thrown around and never seriously answered or answered clearly so heres my opinion:

When relating to a or any CAI "long tube type intake" I would have to say that Yes a CAI "AEM or Comptech, Iceman, Injen" are effective for street driving and may give the impression of MORE HP/TQ! "Now don't get your undies in a bunch," I'm not trying to be a TECH or say I know everything, I'm just sayin that the CAI has a Good feel with HP/TQ are concerned for road driving especially off the low end and off the line when at stop signs or lights. It performs well from then on but it "at least for me" Doesn't seem to have the upper hand in the High RPM's as opposed to the Short Ram style intake. I may be wrong But,

Again, I hope someone can Back me up with Technical knowledge I am just sharing a new revelation that I discovered yesterday at the track. I am NOT claiming to know everything but after seeing some posts by SMSP and the great Hitech debate I understood what they were both saying and trying to relate about header technology and how real world performance is what counts NOT just Dyno's and graphs but track development and recalculations based upon on board computers and their fndings.

I drove 3 laps with the top of my Comptech Icebox ON! It felt as normal as it does in daily driving with it's nice TQ and HP feel down low, "which I didn't experience quite as much with the AEM, But I am NOT AEM bashing."

While I drove I noticed that the RPM's rose steadily and also that I was just not hitting Vtec and using the good portion of my powerband to my advantage. The RPM's also fell gradually. Again Not a bad thing but...

I adjusted tire pressures several times and my seat and thought HEY, I've always heard that circuit racers in Japan and some TC and other track drivers here too use Short Ram intakes for better performance and Throttle response. So I removed the top of my box for the next few runs.

With the Short Ram setup I noticed right off the line it bogged a little, then when I got going it acted differently, kinda livlier with ALOT more Throttle response. I'd Stab the gas and I'd go forward with more urgency. I'd let off the gas and it would just go OFF like a switch. No gradual slowing, I really noticed it. And with all noise aside "which most people who know me, know I am not interested in the Sound alone," It was a different Animal. I was even able to bang off of the rev limiter a couple of times while holding it through turns and hitting straights.

My take is simple, it's my opinion and preference but, I feel for road course or Auto-X that the Short setup is a better choice. It gives you more and quicker Engine and Throttle control.

I can see why the AEM/CAI is so popular, Hell, I had one. It is a great off the line feel and then when Vtec kicks in it pulls nicely. I also see how AEM marketed it's intake and took advantage of it's use in Drag cars, because there you need the most off the line. So it just makes sense that daily drivers and enthusiests that want a little extra will appreciate their CAI. Here again I am NOT AEM bashing.

But, I feel that the Short-Ram pulls harder in the Highs, and it also gives you the control too, "All my opinion as well." I bought the Comptech Icebox for the CAI's advantages and to improve a little on the OEM intake.

Funny enough though, I can enjoy it as a whole complete setup "closed" for daily use quietly and open it up for the Track and get alot more out my car as per my preference, "again My opinion."

Unfortunately now I am Very curious as to what other advantages the ARC box can produce?

I would certainly love to see and hear many other opinions about this topic from HT members and some TECH's too. I know I learned alot just from experimenting and know some people will say rubbish or I'm crazy, " I have a feeling that that will mostly come from younger members though."

In closing I just wanted to post some personal experience and information. If this turns out to be a Flame war then I urge the Tech's to close this post. But, if it turns out to be an educational post with less debate but more experiences and Tech support then I'm all for it.

Good luck to all,

A.

PS We're all here to learn, I think I learned something and wanted to share...

 

I disagree...at least through my experiances.

Ive heard alot of people say that it feels like a short ram intake has better top end then a CAI....but I found that to be untrue (again - on my setup)
With a short ram...my car felt all around slower...especially in the midrange.
The dyno also proved my "feelings"





[Modified by HX_Guy, 8:27 PM 10/22/2001]

 

Best of both worlds!!

 

that's one sick *** setup.

 

I have also heard about this.
Supposedly "cold air intakes have a range below 6000rpm"
or "hot air intakes pull harder up top"

I have heard this, and I have also had a few people recommend this hot air intake with spec B's and other large cams.

my reponse? bull ****.

cold air intake works, and it makes power everywhere. the biggest gain is around 4000rpm or so, but it does NOT prove to be a restriction on the top.

i have dyno'd my car back to back, and also a friend's car back to back(12.2:1, spec B's, mugen header), and guess what? AEM came out on top.

just my two cents.
i'm keeping the AEM on my integra. so what if it is loud.

 

I have the DC Sports DAC and I love it!!!

 

Cold air is always best. A long tube will not be best for top end, and some feel that sacrificing cold air for a shorter tube is worth it.

 

hey Chris, how low do those heatshields go down to? In your opinion, is it worth making one?

 

Mike K....hey man! Don't hold back pal!

"my reponse? bull ****."

LOL..

I agree with that, but not in those words.

Let me put it from a pure scientific perspective....

COLDER AIR into the motor, is going to make MORE HORSEPOWER.

Bottom line. Short ram is sucking up engine bay heat....thats horrible.

COLD AIR= MORE POWER.

If hot air made power, then NOS should lose HP right? Cause all it is is extreme cold air being blown in your intake....

And also, i saw you mentioned a Dyno just gives you numbers....thats totally false.

My Dynojet measures ACCELLERATION very accurately. I can tell you exactly which 2 intakes accerate the fastest.

I just got done with intake testing tonight....3 hours of it....

Stock
Short Ram
Cold Air

Guess which one dominated?

Cold air wins.

Also....I am going to tell you something all the all-motor guru's in LA, already know....

the best intake on earth is one no company sells...its a custom made job...

JG Engine Dynamics gets my thumbup for inventing it...

Its a pipe, any manufactuers....short ram pipe...with a 2 foot extention...running 12 inches out through your headlight, sticking out like a pole...and then a certain kind of K&N filter on the outside...

It looks stupid sticking out 1 foot, but with this certain secret kind of K&N filter, it accerates faster, makes more HP than anything ever made.

Tons of pictures of us, JG, and several others who know this to be true, in all the magazines.

If anyone wants to see which intake accerates the best, bring it over for promotional dyno testing rates, and we will show you, on the graph, which one accerates faster..

Jeff

 

Back to back on my car cold air lost 5-7hp to my stock intake everywhere
except the 4400rpm HUMP.

Jeff: The engine bay isnt that hot when the car is moving.

 

Luckilly, I have hondata hooked up and I can see, with facts, what intake temperatures are, on the track, with intakes in the bay and in front of the car.

Its over 7 degrees different according to hondata.

But what does the sensor in the intake manifold know? haha.

Hook up your hondata. Your a dealer. Then run the car at the track and record each run, like I do.

The one sticking out of the front 1 foot will dominate.

I don't care what people think, or say...I just test and I know...because I got datalogging. Computers don't lie. People do.

The hondata intake gasket also makes a difference of a few degrees F. It does work to an extent. Expecially on a supercharged or turbo car.

Jeff

 

I think the deal with cold air setups is...

half of the advantage comes from teh cooler air...the other from the length of the pipinng and the resonance it creates (especially ~4000 on Hondas)

Would this hold true to your "1 foot sticking out the headlight" intake Jeff?

I have wanted for a while to test lomger length intakes on the dyno and see how the length of the pipe affects the power and the band.

 

that heat shield is beautiful.. More info.. how did u make it? Or did u buy it?

 

My thought, comparisons of CAIs on a dyno should not be the final answer. This is where track testing and timed acceleration runs on the street are VERY important. Almost every time I've seen a car on the dyno the hood was open, how many of you willing drive down the road/track with your hood open? Think about the air flow and pressure getting to the intake at different speeds and then throw in a change of rpm due to a shift at different speeds while accelerating down the track. Also, under hood temperatures are different at lower speeds versus higher.

I read where the old NA Touring Cars could generate upwards of 1 psi in the intake manifold through the ram effect at high speeds.....something that dyno shops can't do.

I can't wait to open my dyno shop and wind tunnel. Hourly rates will be a bit higher though.

CAI extensions like Jeff talked about probably work well since they're in "clean" air. After Chad gets finished with the header test we are going to find the optimal location for the CAI inlet. By using an extremely accurate pressure gauge, i.e. Magnahelic go to http://www.dwyer-inst.com/htdocs/pressure/2000.html. I've used these a bunch in my old design job and the accuracy and range available are very good. One can then set up a probe at different locations on the front end of the car and record the pressure at different speeds for that location and repeat that many, many times over at different locations. Will the peak pressure location at 60 mph be the same as at 90 mph? Probably not.....ah compromise. What about a CAI that has its location computer controlled as a function of the speed? Can you say sliding track??? Nothing that some Thompson slides and Compumotors can't handle.

SMSP - Who's brain storming out loud and wonders how fast do you want to go?

 

AMEN!!

Aren't the only people who dyno in windtunnels the F1 boys and some big dollar car manufacturers? I heard somebody mention that here before....

dun get me wrong Dynos are hella cool....but how do you effectively reproduce a 160kph wind with a relatively small fan ducting into the intake?

 

damn that is a nice setup. if your car daily driven? I want to do that to my car now.lol.

 

Nice set up, details please...we're all anxiously waiting.

-Nick

 

Sorry fellas! Please feel free to IM me for details... or AIM. See my sig.

 

With the light cut for intaking air stream.......what happen if it suddenly rains.....Hydrolock?

 

I was j/k on that one, but I do wish.

 

I would consider injen and AEM to be long tube intake systems, but not the comptech. The filter is still in the "short" position and air is just routed to the intake from a "cold" location.

Plus, the headlight removal idea is the best of both worlds in terms of both ram air and cold air. Another alternative would be a hood vent or scoop...if someone was so inclined to attempt it.

 

Ahhh yes thank you sgT,

exactly what I was getting at, I did all this WHEN the CAR was MOVING! and at an Auto-X event When you want to blast through the low-end and get to our sweet spot in the 5600 RPM to revlimiter range!

I was NOT disputing the effectiveness of the CAI as compared to the Short ram where Cold Air is concerned! I understand that cold air is denser and will produce more HP/TQ than Hot, but the difference in Temperature is so small when you are moving.

Another thing is: Why would Foo and Realtime still run their stock and Modified OEM intakes "which are Short-ram style" if they thought that an AEM/CAI was better or would produce better performance? Their intakes are stock parts modified and sans the resonator.

I was stating that At Speed, around 30 MPH and up and in the middle of the Tach I FELT that the Throttle not only repsonded faster "which is better in my opinion on a COURSE," and that it Definately Felt like it pulled ***** to the wall harder!

and all this is comparing it to my Whole CLOSED "icebox" setup!

And the BullShit comment wasn't warrented I don't think, I was not looking to start a flame war.

The real world has AIRFLOW "as SMSP so eloquently stated," something a Dyno doesn't reproduce exactly, right?

The key to this post was for me to share what I experienced while experimenting on a closed course. I had sun, wind and alot of fun...

I actually saw some track only cars with the Filter actually sticking out of the light mounting holes as stated earlier.

And I saw Alot of the more experienced drivers "that turned in some awesome times," run with the AEM short-ram. When I asked them about the CAI they said the difference was negligable on a track and preferred the short style for better throttle control.

This is just all my opinion,

Good luck guys,

A.

PS SMSP I'm gonna get in touch with you again soon about your catback, but I wanted to know IF and WHEN you are gonna have it all welded so All I have to do is mount it?

 

Actually, the only possibility of a RAM air setup requires removal of the air filter, as that would negate any significant positive pressure. I did it just to have as much cold air available, and keep the intake tube as short as possible.

I also remove the headlight (attached to wrapped section and detaches from airbox section) during rainy months. Not too much "sudden rain" here in California

 

Here's my setup

I just bought an AEM intake after looking into many other avenues. For example, the j's racing intake was a prospect, and so was the arc. Everyone seems to be claiming something, and in the end it is very hard as a consumer to figure out which one is the best. I've been running the setup pictured above for about half a year now and I can't say it's good or bad. I suppose it bogs down low, meaning 3000- but after that, things seems to pick up.

As for the sound, this setup makes alot of slight turboesque sounds and air noise. But I swear below 3000, it sounds like a clunker sometimes.

 

Lets battle.

Please let me know, how you achieve 1 lb per square inch of pressure on an open ended system?

Also, my SNAP on FAN that costs $450 bucks blows air at approx 200 MPH.

You can actually DUCK TAPE it to the iceman race scoop and run the car...too bad that velocity doesn't help anything...

And I have several fans from a light breeze to 200 MPH. So I can effectively replicate real world conditions.

Also, contrary to popular belief:

A DYNOJET MEASURES ACCELERATION.

period. Bottom line. I don't understand for 1 second how people can say it doesn't.

It measures acceration incredibly well.

Ok Dave, I am done with you. haha.

Rinse and repeat. haha./

No offense, "joking" having fun with you.

P.S. i forgot to mention that I have a pressure sensor for the intake manifold.
Jeff




[Modified by ImportReview, 4:46 AM 10/24/2001]