EMRA at Watkins Glen review
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Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Apr 2001
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From: Valley Forge, PA, USA
EMRA at Watkins Glen review
So this past weekend was the EMRA Watkins Glen time
trial and race. The time trial was on Saturday, the
race was on Sunday. As those of you who read my last
track report might remember, the only wheels and tires
that I have at this point are Dave Davis' Volks with
225/45/15 Hoosiers on them. I knew that they rubbed a
bit on the rear right at Nazareth, but my hope was
that since the Glen doesn't have such consistent hard
cornering, that they wouldn't rub. So much for that
theory.
They rubbed on the inside. They rubbed on the
outside. I can't really think of many places on the
car that they didn't rub. SO, I had the constant
friction of the tires rubbing, combined with the fact
that I don't have enough horsepower to push that much
rubber around, and combined with the fact that the
larger rolling circumferance screwed up my gearing,
and then the fact that I couldn't keep those huge
tires hot enough and well..... my first session out
on Saturday left me 6 seconds off of the times that I
turned there just a month and a half ago (2:33 vs
2:27). It was a bit cooler this time, but that
doesn't account for 6 seconds!
Cold Hoosiers suck by the way. They really need to
get up to temp to bite, so I was doing a lot of
sliding in that first session. The brakes also lock
easily when the tires are cold! I only locked them
once though, for about half a second on the back
straight, but with my recent luck, I'm sure you all
know what this next sentence is going to be. Yep, I
flatspotted one to the cords, but unlike the other
times, this one wasn't too bad. For those keeping a
count, that is 6 flatspotted tires in the last 5
weeks. I moved it to the rear, and though it thunked
along at low speeds, it was fine on the track.
Raising the rear coil overs even more kept the fender
lip off of the tire, and that did help a bit. However
the more I raise them, the less negative camber I
have, the higher my center of gravity, and the further
I am from the corner balanced set-up. It was a no win
situation. I also "rolled" the fender a little bit..... with a hammer.
For the actual time trial I follow the
suggestion of a friend of mine there who recommended
increasing the tire pressures greatly to reduce the
contact patch.
It worked pretty well, and I managed to click off a
2:31 for the time trial. That put me in 2nd place out
of 13 ST3 cars, but EMRA won't give racers trophies
for the time trials. We can run them for fun, but we
can't officially place. So the guy who came in third
got the second place trophy.
Todd Reid was there with his Civic, which had Yoko
A032s (205/50/15). Since Todd's car is newer than
mine, we decided to see if the Hoosiers would fit on
his car. They did, so we swapped tires and wheels for
the race day.
Todd did have a slight rub, but his time in the first
session was a second and a half faster than the
fastest lap that he had ever turned there with that
Civic. I was down to 2:30 with the Yokos, so we both
were happy. The A032s don't grip as well as the
Toyos, but it was definately an improvement over the
Hoosiers. I qualified at 2:30, which placed me 6th of
11 ST3 cars. With the Toyos I would have been
starting 4th. It was a workable position though. I
knew I couldn't win with those tires, but I figured I
would just go out and race with whoever was close to
me.
I set up the video camera in the car, but something
was wrong with the battery, and it wouldn't record.
Damn!
I got a pretty good jump on the start and was closing
on a Blue GTI in front of me. He irresponsibly left a
"lane" open on the inside of the track, so I ran to
throw my nose in it to take him on the inside of turn
1. I was halfway past his car, but he was too
pre-occupied with the cars on his left to see me. We
went into turn 1, and he turned right into me. His
rear right wheel caught me dead center on my door, and
his car started rotating to face the inside wall. His
car never stopped touching mine and he kind of rolled
around my front left fender until my front bumper was
on his passenger door. I stayed on the throttle and
started turning in for turn 1 (which is a right
hander). My car moving to the right spun him back in
the opposite direction and he spun off the track to
the left - taking a couple of other cars with him. I
stayed on it and actually caught a nice apex for turn
1 heading down for turn 2.
The race was black flagged as they couldn't leave 3
cars in the gravel trap on the outside of turn 1, it's
too dangerous. I hopped out in the pits to survey the
damage to my car. Big scuff mark from his tire on my
door, bent fender, panel right in front of the door
got pushed in when I opened the door. I pull the
fender up a bit to get it away from the tire and got
back in my car to get ready for the restart (and take
the time to be SOOOO mad that my videocamera wasn't
working for that). The VW had less damage than I did,
and he was back for the restart as well. Since it
happened on the first turn, they decided to do a full
restart, which meant that we started in original
positions again.
My second jump wasn't as good, and I actually lost a
couple of places. I got them back very quickly the
first time we hit the back straight. I took a lot of
momentum through turn 4 and actually passed 4 cars
before the braking zone for the chicane. We were
three wide down there for the whole length, and were
two wide in the chicane, which is VERY hairy! It was
all clean though - no contact.
We settled down into a pack of two ST3 GTIs, one ST4
GTI, an a ST3 Civic, and my ST3 CRX. So four of the
five of us were racing for position. I've never raced
like this before - it was so intense. We were passing
each other left and right, and going side by side
through half the turns. With the gearing screwed up
from the larger tires (yes, Todd's tires had the same
rolling circumferance as the Hoosiers) I was having a
horrible time in turn 7 (aka, the toe of the boot).
Every time through there they would catch me, and
sometimes pass me. I was faster in the esses though,
so I would get them back on the back straight. I
tried different things since that pace would leave
them ahead of me when we crossed the start/finish line
to take the checker at the end.
At one point, the ST4 GTI and I swapped the lead 3
times in one lap. The other two ST3 GTIs ended up
fighting each other behind us, so it gave us a little
breathing room. Like I said, I had more speed on the
back straight than any of them, so that kept me in the
fight, even when the A032s were begging for mercy. It
was a long race - 13 laps, and my gas tank was getting
a bit on the low side. In other words, it was just
about reading empty. I had no idea how many laps were
left, and I started thinking about slowing down to
save gas. Then I thought some more and said screw it.
I was happy to see the two laps to go signal from the
tower, because I was pretty sure I had enough fuel
left for that.
At that point, the two GTIs had fallen far enough back
that I didn't worry about them. The ST4 GTI was out
of reach, but the ST3 Civic was right in front of me.
Our power was very equal, and though I could catch him
on the back straight, I couldn't get by. I tried to
get him twice in the boot, but it wouldn't stick. I
decided my best bet was to close the gap, and make my
move for the dramatic pass on the front straight going
for the checker. I was right on his bumper and he was
getting nervous - I could tell by his driving. We got
to the last turn, and I took a bit later apex than he
did. I had the draft behind him, and swung out to
make the pass. I had him, there was no question. It
was just a matter of whether I could get it before the
start finish line. We crossed the line almost side by
side, but he had the edge. He the tower been a little
further down I would have gotten him, but I was still
VERY happy considering the tire issues. I managed to
click off a 2:28 during the race because the competition
was so intense. With a good set of 185/60/13 Hoosiers
on, I think I can get into the 2:25s or so.
So, the CRX isn't as pretty as it used to be. It will
probably visit a body shop after the Summit Point race
in two weeks to pull the dents out, but nothing major.
It still drives great, and the alignment doesn't seem
to be off, so I'm not worrying.
On the way home the "check engine" light came on.
Todd and I think I melted the O2 sensor, or at least
melted the wire enough to ruin the connection. I also
think it needs new bearings in the right rear, but
again, that can wait for the off season.
MB
trial and race. The time trial was on Saturday, the
race was on Sunday. As those of you who read my last
track report might remember, the only wheels and tires
that I have at this point are Dave Davis' Volks with
225/45/15 Hoosiers on them. I knew that they rubbed a
bit on the rear right at Nazareth, but my hope was
that since the Glen doesn't have such consistent hard
cornering, that they wouldn't rub. So much for that
theory.
They rubbed on the inside. They rubbed on the
outside. I can't really think of many places on the
car that they didn't rub. SO, I had the constant
friction of the tires rubbing, combined with the fact
that I don't have enough horsepower to push that much
rubber around, and combined with the fact that the
larger rolling circumferance screwed up my gearing,
and then the fact that I couldn't keep those huge
tires hot enough and well..... my first session out
on Saturday left me 6 seconds off of the times that I
turned there just a month and a half ago (2:33 vs
2:27). It was a bit cooler this time, but that
doesn't account for 6 seconds!
Cold Hoosiers suck by the way. They really need to
get up to temp to bite, so I was doing a lot of
sliding in that first session. The brakes also lock
easily when the tires are cold! I only locked them
once though, for about half a second on the back
straight, but with my recent luck, I'm sure you all
know what this next sentence is going to be. Yep, I
flatspotted one to the cords, but unlike the other
times, this one wasn't too bad. For those keeping a
count, that is 6 flatspotted tires in the last 5
weeks. I moved it to the rear, and though it thunked
along at low speeds, it was fine on the track.
Raising the rear coil overs even more kept the fender
lip off of the tire, and that did help a bit. However
the more I raise them, the less negative camber I
have, the higher my center of gravity, and the further
I am from the corner balanced set-up. It was a no win
situation. I also "rolled" the fender a little bit..... with a hammer.
For the actual time trial I follow the
suggestion of a friend of mine there who recommended
increasing the tire pressures greatly to reduce the
contact patch.
It worked pretty well, and I managed to click off a
2:31 for the time trial. That put me in 2nd place out
of 13 ST3 cars, but EMRA won't give racers trophies
for the time trials. We can run them for fun, but we
can't officially place. So the guy who came in third
got the second place trophy.
Todd Reid was there with his Civic, which had Yoko
A032s (205/50/15). Since Todd's car is newer than
mine, we decided to see if the Hoosiers would fit on
his car. They did, so we swapped tires and wheels for
the race day.
Todd did have a slight rub, but his time in the first
session was a second and a half faster than the
fastest lap that he had ever turned there with that
Civic. I was down to 2:30 with the Yokos, so we both
were happy. The A032s don't grip as well as the
Toyos, but it was definately an improvement over the
Hoosiers. I qualified at 2:30, which placed me 6th of
11 ST3 cars. With the Toyos I would have been
starting 4th. It was a workable position though. I
knew I couldn't win with those tires, but I figured I
would just go out and race with whoever was close to
me.
I set up the video camera in the car, but something
was wrong with the battery, and it wouldn't record.
Damn!
I got a pretty good jump on the start and was closing
on a Blue GTI in front of me. He irresponsibly left a
"lane" open on the inside of the track, so I ran to
throw my nose in it to take him on the inside of turn
1. I was halfway past his car, but he was too
pre-occupied with the cars on his left to see me. We
went into turn 1, and he turned right into me. His
rear right wheel caught me dead center on my door, and
his car started rotating to face the inside wall. His
car never stopped touching mine and he kind of rolled
around my front left fender until my front bumper was
on his passenger door. I stayed on the throttle and
started turning in for turn 1 (which is a right
hander). My car moving to the right spun him back in
the opposite direction and he spun off the track to
the left - taking a couple of other cars with him. I
stayed on it and actually caught a nice apex for turn
1 heading down for turn 2.
The race was black flagged as they couldn't leave 3
cars in the gravel trap on the outside of turn 1, it's
too dangerous. I hopped out in the pits to survey the
damage to my car. Big scuff mark from his tire on my
door, bent fender, panel right in front of the door
got pushed in when I opened the door. I pull the
fender up a bit to get it away from the tire and got
back in my car to get ready for the restart (and take
the time to be SOOOO mad that my videocamera wasn't
working for that). The VW had less damage than I did,
and he was back for the restart as well. Since it
happened on the first turn, they decided to do a full
restart, which meant that we started in original
positions again.
My second jump wasn't as good, and I actually lost a
couple of places. I got them back very quickly the
first time we hit the back straight. I took a lot of
momentum through turn 4 and actually passed 4 cars
before the braking zone for the chicane. We were
three wide down there for the whole length, and were
two wide in the chicane, which is VERY hairy! It was
all clean though - no contact.
We settled down into a pack of two ST3 GTIs, one ST4
GTI, an a ST3 Civic, and my ST3 CRX. So four of the
five of us were racing for position. I've never raced
like this before - it was so intense. We were passing
each other left and right, and going side by side
through half the turns. With the gearing screwed up
from the larger tires (yes, Todd's tires had the same
rolling circumferance as the Hoosiers) I was having a
horrible time in turn 7 (aka, the toe of the boot).
Every time through there they would catch me, and
sometimes pass me. I was faster in the esses though,
so I would get them back on the back straight. I
tried different things since that pace would leave
them ahead of me when we crossed the start/finish line
to take the checker at the end.
At one point, the ST4 GTI and I swapped the lead 3
times in one lap. The other two ST3 GTIs ended up
fighting each other behind us, so it gave us a little
breathing room. Like I said, I had more speed on the
back straight than any of them, so that kept me in the
fight, even when the A032s were begging for mercy. It
was a long race - 13 laps, and my gas tank was getting
a bit on the low side. In other words, it was just
about reading empty. I had no idea how many laps were
left, and I started thinking about slowing down to
save gas. Then I thought some more and said screw it.
I was happy to see the two laps to go signal from the
tower, because I was pretty sure I had enough fuel
left for that.
At that point, the two GTIs had fallen far enough back
that I didn't worry about them. The ST4 GTI was out
of reach, but the ST3 Civic was right in front of me.
Our power was very equal, and though I could catch him
on the back straight, I couldn't get by. I tried to
get him twice in the boot, but it wouldn't stick. I
decided my best bet was to close the gap, and make my
move for the dramatic pass on the front straight going
for the checker. I was right on his bumper and he was
getting nervous - I could tell by his driving. We got
to the last turn, and I took a bit later apex than he
did. I had the draft behind him, and swung out to
make the pass. I had him, there was no question. It
was just a matter of whether I could get it before the
start finish line. We crossed the line almost side by
side, but he had the edge. He the tower been a little
further down I would have gotten him, but I was still
VERY happy considering the tire issues. I managed to
click off a 2:28 during the race because the competition
was so intense. With a good set of 185/60/13 Hoosiers
on, I think I can get into the 2:25s or so.
So, the CRX isn't as pretty as it used to be. It will
probably visit a body shop after the Summit Point race
in two weeks to pull the dents out, but nothing major.
It still drives great, and the alignment doesn't seem
to be off, so I'm not worrying.
On the way home the "check engine" light came on.
Todd and I think I melted the O2 sensor, or at least
melted the wire enough to ruin the connection. I also
think it needs new bearings in the right rear, but
again, that can wait for the off season.
MB
Member
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,723
Likes: 0
From: On a golf course, VA
Re: EMRA at Watkins Glen review (speedracer33)
wow, awesome post! I really enjoyed reading that. Sounds like you had a great time. Its too bad you ran out of track. We will be looking for the wrinkled CRX, at the NASA day 
Bryan
Bryan
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 2,293
Likes: 0
From: Upstate NY, NY, USA
Re: EMRA at Watkins Glen review (speedracer33)
Great review! 
Matt, nice meeting you ... wish I would of stayed to watch the race.
I was at the Glen on Saturday for the Time Trial also. I managed to take the 4th place trophy in the STGT category, turning a 2:23 lap time. 2 Corvettes and a Camero IROC took the top three positions. My Stock Type R is a bit outclassed at the Glen.
I was happy with the Yoko A032s grip, but I'm convinced that I could of turned faster laps with some more tire & brake temp. We only get half a lap to warm the car up. I too was sliding the car quite a bit ... The chicane and turn 6 were insane!
Matt, nice meeting you ... wish I would of stayed to watch the race.I was at the Glen on Saturday for the Time Trial also. I managed to take the 4th place trophy in the STGT category, turning a 2:23 lap time. 2 Corvettes and a Camero IROC took the top three positions. My Stock Type R is a bit outclassed at the Glen.
I was happy with the Yoko A032s grip, but I'm convinced that I could of turned faster laps with some more tire & brake temp. We only get half a lap to warm the car up. I too was sliding the car quite a bit ... The chicane and turn 6 were insane!
Wrong-Way Wang
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 3,168
Likes: 0
Re: EMRA at Watkins Glen review (speedracer33)
So, the CRX isn't as pretty as it used to be. It will
probably visit a body shop after the Summit Point race
in two weeks to pull the dents out, but nothing major.
It still drives great, and the alignment doesn't seem
to be off, so I'm not worrying.
probably visit a body shop after the Summit Point race
in two weeks to pull the dents out, but nothing major.
It still drives great, and the alignment doesn't seem
to be off, so I'm not worrying.
Zinger Boy
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 3,402
Likes: 0
From: Pacific Northwest, USA
Re: EMRA at Watkins Glen review (speedracer33)
On the way home the "check engine" light came on.
Todd and I think I melted the O2 sensor, or at least
melted the wire enough to ruin the connection. I also
think it needs new bearings in the right rear, but
again, that can wait for the off season.
Todd and I think I melted the O2 sensor, or at least
melted the wire enough to ruin the connection. I also
think it needs new bearings in the right rear, but
again, that can wait for the off season.
If so...~tips hat~ Cheers
[Modified by johng, 9:04 PM 10/22/2001]
Thread Starter
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 4,323
Likes: 0
From: Valley Forge, PA, USA
Re: EMRA at Watkins Glen review (johng)
On the way home? Matt, is this a daily driven (or at least street legal) car you drive to-and-from races?
If so...~tips hat~ Cheers
If so...~tips hat~ Cheers
Matt
P.S. I forgot to mention that there were two F3 cars at the race. They lapped the track in 1 minute and 46 seconds!!! Only 42 seconds/lap faster than me! Now THAT is fast....
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