so due to a move i'm joining SCCA instead of Midwestern Council this year. and in this process i have come across quite a number of fees.

the breakdown;

$55 to join SCCA
$15 to join Kansas City Region
$55 to get a logbook/novice permit
$55 to get a regional liscense
$25 for GCR

i haven't even looked at what it costs to reserve a number. i mean, is this really necessary? lets be real about what this is, $205 FOR EFFIN PAPER PUSHING. maybe i've been spoiled the last 3 years, but all i pay with council is $60/yr, i get a free logbook, gcr, and membership to my local club.

i know it's a business and all......but sheesh

 

Some1 call the Whhhaaaaaambulance!

I paid membership and license fees to NASA to race in ECHC and then to SCCA to attend the double school and some SCCA races the 2nd half of the year.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SPiFF &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Some1 call the Whhhaaaaaambulance!

I paid membership and license fees to NASA to race in ECHC and then to SCCA to attend the double school and some SCCA races the 2nd half of the year. </TD></TR></TABLE>

you must be a democrat.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tnord &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

you must be a democrat. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Maybe, but the republican in me says "close your eyes and spend. Don't ask questions..."

-travis, who couldn't even tell you what he paid to enter his first HC race because he wasn't paying attention to those details

 

I changed my membership of record to Big Sky ($5) when Northwest Region raised its dues and did some other stuff that I was unhappy with. You can be a member of any region in the nation, regardless of where you live.

Would that be a Dem or GOP thing to do? Libertarian?

K

 

The Republican thing to do would be to cut all the SCCA fees by $3 for everyone making under $100K a year, and cut them by $150 for everyone making over that amount - and for SCCA to borrow a s***load of money to cover their losses.

The Democratic thing to do? Nobody knows, they haven't controlled the rulemaking process for ten years.

The Libertarian thing to do would be to complain about what everybody else does, without having to worry about ever having a say in it.

 

SCCA membership is $75, not $55...
Honestly, I think its a little dumb too, but if you don't like it, go find another sandbox. There *is* more than one.

 

Now you know why many MC members choose not to participate in Milwaukee/Chicago region events. Don't forget the higher entry fees too!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by madhatter &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">SCCA membership is $75, not $55...
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Wrong.
SCCA membership is $55. You're paying $20 for the Atlanta region.
That covers Gwen's salary and the office lease in Norcross. Yes, our region has its own full time admin assistant and an office. Its big enough to need it.
You might think its overkill until you need a question answered fast or need help immediately and there's *always* a friendly voice on the other end of the phone. Not to mention that Atl region events typically go off without a single hitch.
Yeah, its worth the extra couple of bucks a year in the greater scheme of things.

Other items that all that crazy money we (at least down here in JawJa) pay to SCCA covers...
- A "Crash and Burn" school each year to train corner workers how to properly pull your *** out of a burning car and eliminate your deadness if need be.
- A dedicated, regional bi-monthly newsletter.
- The autocross folks consistently have the biggest, best venues available. One of the reasons for that is that your region has MONEY. Nothing is free.
- Insurance. How many of you guys have compared, say NASAs, liability insurance to SCCAs? How about the medical coverage for you, the driver, in case you get hurt? Have you looked at SCCA's coverage for that?

In short, I guess my point is that you shouldn't bitch unless you know what you are bitching about. I've been on the Atlanta Region SCCA board and I know where the money is going. It goes back to you, the member, in some form or another. Nobody on that board got paid a single cent for their services.
This is not the case with other groups, where workers aren't trained (beyond "this is a debris flag"), Regional newsletters aren't published, Insurance isn't as good, and some of your money goes directly into someone's pocket.

And as mentioned, if you don't like paying the extra money for all of these things, you have other choices.

Scott, who after attempting to convert his NASA novice permit to a license 3 times just plain gave it the **** up.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Catch 22 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Wrong.
SCCA membership is $55. You're paying $20 for the Atlanta region.
That covers... &lt;snip lots of stuff&gt;</TD></TR></TABLE>

Ditto here in DC. $75 total, but regional events are great, probably some of the best in the nation.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tnord &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">so due to a move i'm joining SCCA instead of Midwestern Council this year. and in this process i have come across quite a number of fees.

the breakdown;

$55 to join SCCA
$15 to join Kansas City Region
$55 to get a logbook/novice permit
$55 to get a regional liscense
$25 for GCR

i haven't even looked at what it costs to reserve a number. i mean, is this really necessary? lets be real about what this is, $205 FOR EFFIN PAPER PUSHING. maybe i've been spoiled the last 3 years, but all i pay with council is $60/yr, i get a free logbook, gcr, and membership to my local club.

i know it's a business and all......but sheesh </TD></TR></TABLE>

I think you need to look at each item as a separate entity. Your logbook has something like 40 entries in it right? - that makes it basically $1.25 per race to go through tech inspection. Your region's dues go to just that, your region - I believe we pay $12 or $15 but I cannot recall. $55 for yearly membership dues to me is really not that bad, SportsCar is one of the only magazines I actually read so that's worth it in itself. The cost of a GCR really doesn't seem that bad to me - in some ways I am glad its hard bound and has a year on it - not much confusion what ruleset is valid. And you by no means need to reserve a number, that's by choice. I didn't for two years and kept the same number (in SM, it might be more important due to the size of the field however).

In the end, membership has its privledges. I have gone to a National to spectate and I just showed my id at the gate, they let me right in. I want to do an auto-x, I get a discount. I want to book a hotel room for a race weekend, typically there's an SCCA discount. I guess for me, its really not such a bad deal. And that they have doctors there and trained corner workers and I can get questions answered with a phone call, I'm actually pretty thankful.

 

had i not been involved with a previous sanctioning body the last 3 years, i'd have nothing to bitch about..........but that's not the case.

shmeek feel free to chime in here, i think we're about the only MC members around.

in Midwestern Council you pay $50 for membership, and $60 for liscensing. this gets you your logbook (if you don't already have one), GCR, membership to a local club, monthly club newsletter, and a monthly Council "magazine." now i won't comment on the "quality," or availability of assistance, as i have not been through a full season with SCCA yet. but in the past, i've always been able to get questions answered in less than 24 hours via a phone call, i'm 90% sure there is a fire and rescue training day every year, and i would think comparable insurance coverage to SCCA, i think it says in one of my old Klaxon's (MC version of Sports Car). In the end, MC is in the black every year. Like i said, i've probably been spoiled the last few years. Honestly, the $55 for a logbook is really the only significant thorn in my side.

If there is someone else to compete with here in the KC area, i'm all for it. But having the SHORTEST tow of 9 hours all year, it's just not worth it to go play in the sandbox i'm accustomed to.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tnord &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">had i not been involved with a previous sanctioning body the last 3 years, i'd have nothing to bitch about..........but that's not the case.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I'm still not sure what it is that you are upset about. The money? You just bought a truck, trailer, new belts, etc... whats a few extra $$ to race?

 

i'm not :::fire::: steaming mad here. ya know when you go to buy a car or a trailer, and there's all those rediculous little nickel and dime charges that you know are just there to generate revenue, and it makes you mad? kinda like that.

you get mad when you think of all the social security we're paying to subsidize our parents retirement don't you (or maybe i'm subsidizing yours )? same principle, i just feel like i'm throwing money away with this stuff.

i'm just a cheap bastard and it makes me mad when i know i'm being wasteful. the truck........necessity. i didn't get anything on it that wasn't a necessity either, no leather, no upgraded stereo, no climate control, etc.

i'm sorry if i can't take the attitude of "i already spent 20g's, i might as well toss around a few hundred more dollars." it's just not in my nature, i'm the guy that spends less than $100/month on the three f's; food, fuel, and fun. of course that will change with the truck, and excludes racing expenses, but you get the idea.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tnord &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">you get mad when you think of all the social security we're paying to subsidize our parents retirement don't you (or maybe i'm subsidizing yours )? same principle, i just feel like i'm throwing money away with this stuff.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Thats a very poor example. SCCA isnt busted, and we're not paying a bunch of money today so that we cant race tomorrow. &lt;/rant off&gt;

SCCA is a much larger organization than the club you raced with last year. There's more races. A bigger rulebook. More people. More benefits. Its nationwide. Your membership is good everywhere, not just at whatever track the Midwest club is at that month. And so forth.... Racing isnt cheap for SCCA either.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tnord &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Honestly, the $55 for a logbook is really the only significant thorn in my side.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Since when do you pay for a logbook (you are talking about the little blue thing that you staple a few pictures into and the tech guy stamps every weekend, right)? I'm pretty sure I didn't for my RX-7.

 

it may not be the best example in the world, no. but people get frustrated at SS because they feel like they are paying money without benefit, and i feel like i'm paying money without benefit as well, that's the only correlation i was trying to make.

a bigger rulebook? this is a benefit how? i think we would all agree that more rules != better system. it'd cost us all a lot less if we just had the GCR on CD, then print out the required sections relevant to you for tech.

i can see the benefit in being able to race anywhere, that's justified. but like i said before, it's the logbook thing that irks me.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Crack Monkey &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Since when do you pay for a logbook (you are talking about the little blue thing that you staple a few pictures into and the tech guy stamps every weekend, right)? I'm pretty sure I didn't for my RX-7.</TD></TR></TABLE>

it's on the Novice permit application form which you have to return to get a logbook. then you have to pay again to get a regional liscense from my understanding.

 

I dont think SCCA is throwing your money away or being frivolous or paying their president millions of dollars a year. There's benefits for the cost of membership and fees.

Maybe I dont get it?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tnord &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

it's on the Novice permit application form which you have to return to get a logbook. then you have to pay again to get a regional liscense from my understanding.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Huh? Logbooks are issued to cars, not to drivers.

But, you are correct, the SCCA does double-charge - once for the novice permit and again for the regional license. But this has nothing to do with a logbook (unless someone is calling the novice permit a logbook as well).

 

rj-

i think it's just my background in finance and asset management that lends me to be skeptical of where all the money is going. i also wonder if there is a bit of "if we don't spend all our money, we'll get less next year," stuff going on, which i think EVERY business does. i guess i'm just a crotchety 23yr old.

crack-
from my understanding, i have to apply for a novice permit before i get a logbook, since $55 accompanies this application, i view it at $55 for a logbook. i think you're view is more accurate, since like you said, logbooks go to cars, not drivers.

correction: membership and liscensing with MC is $70/year, not $110 like i inferred before. i definitely see the benefit in being with SCCA over MC, but i'm not sure if i see $135 in annual benefit, which, in the grand scheme of things, is nothing.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">eliminate your deadness if need be.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Now *that's* funny....

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tnord &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">ya know when you go to buy a car or a trailer, and there's all those rediculous little nickel and dime charges that you know are just there to generate revenue, and it makes you mad? kinda like that.</TD></TR></TABLE>
What kind of republican are you? That's business w/o government intereference . You're supposed to be on the corporate side, not the avg joe's side

Anyway, you'll probably have to do what I did - not join the SCCA. My region even charges a buck for a course map (autox). Instead, I run on crappier lots with smaller clubs. Cheap seat time=good.

 

i'm no republican or democrat. i'm a common sense capitalist

 

The $55 you refer to for the "logbook" is your novice permit and its a one time charge. Unless you lose your license for some reason and have to go to school again, you'll never spend that $55 "annually."
I would have thought with all that finance and asset management background you would have spotted this, or maybe you were just too busy bitching and didn't notice .

I just renewed all my SCCA stuff. Cost was $75 for national and Atlanta region membership, $55 for race license, and $25 for the GCR (which included a CD rom). So call it $155 per year for a racing membership. And if you have a buddy to share GCRs with... well, you can save that $25 and buy a tank of gas for your truck (well, almost a tank of gas).

a bigger rulebook? this is a benefit how? i think we would all agree that more rules != better system.


The bigger rulebook is neccessary for the bigger club with more classes, more venues, and more regions. Its a benefit because a smaller, not-so-well-defined rulebook that covers a whole country and a bunch of classes leads to a shitpot of problems. You may not agree with SCCAs rules, but you can rarely complain that you don't know what they are or where they are.

it'd cost us all a lot less if we just had the GCR on CD, then print out the required sections relevant to you for tech.

Those of us with computers. While it is 2004, you can't just ***-ume that everyone has access to a CDrom and a printer. What may work for you might not work for everybody.
What if all the 60 year old guys in the club decided to eliminate your Miata because it doesn't have a carb and leaf springs?

In the end, comparing MC to SCCA is apples to oranges. You can do it if you want, but as you've found here you won't find very many people to hop on that boat with you.