I have been exchanging information with a handful of people on this board regarding various setups for these cars. While certain opinions seem to be pretty pervasive, I have seen a wide range of opinions regarding optimal front/rear roll stiffness. Some people prefer to increase the size of the rear bar and keep the OEM front, some increase the rear and remove the front, and others just remove the front and use the OEM rear. And this seems to be done within a narrow range of spring rates that are similar to mine (400-500F/500-700R).

I drove all last year on OEM sway bars front and rear. This season I have removed the front bar and have continued to use the OEM rear. I have yet to manipulate the rear sway bar thickness, but this is next.

I would just like to get an idea for who's running what in this specific application. Thanks for any input.

 

I'm on the 500f/700r springs, with a 22mm ST bar in back and no bar in front. Started off last year (first year racing) with the OEM front bar and the ST rear bar at its softest setting. With a bit of experience in the car, I tried disconnecting the front bar, and found that I liked the looser rear end, so I dumped it alltogether. Eventually went to the middle setting on the rear bar and was happy with that at year's end. On advice of others who do well in CRXs, I set the shocks (Koni) soft in front and medium in back. Seemed to work well, so never messed with them. Be aware that last year I was solidly mid-pack, so take my advice with as many grains of NaCl as desired.

Of course last year the engine and drivetrain were pretty stock. Over the winter I picked up LSD, FD, and a more healthy motor, so I may have to play some more with the suspension this year.

 

So you're now running the 7/8ths rear on the middle setting and no front bar. Do you feel like the car is predictable at turn-in? Do you trail brake still? I haven't yet decided if I like the front bar out, but I'm willing to adapt to anything that's faster since it's not like I'm set in my ways. Anyone else?

 

500/700 springs
Tokico 5 way
22mm bars front and rear [ middle setting on rear bar]
works great

CRX-Si
SCCA/ICSCC
#12 ITA

 

450F/700R
Stock sways at both ends

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by travis &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">So you're now running the 7/8ths rear on the middle setting and no front bar. Do you feel like the car is predictable at turn-in? Do you trail brake still? I haven't yet decided if I like the front bar out, but I'm willing to adapt to anything that's faster since it's not like I'm set in my ways. Anyone else?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Turn-in seems predictable. Doesn't plow and not darty at all. Front toe is now +1/8" and rear at zero BTW. Tried +1/4" in the front and turn-in was a bit quicker, but the thing was so darty under braking I had to back off to +1/8".

If I do my part, I can trail brake in and the rear will rotate what seems the proper amount to me, with the car set up about right for throttle when it's time to get back into it. Folks tell me that as I get more experience, I'll likely want to loosen up the rear end a bit more. We'll see.

Now if I could just find somebody with an acknowledged well set-up car to let me drive it, or get two or three top CRX drivers to try mine out and provide feedback , I'd probably know more.

 

I typically ran no front bar and a bigger, preferably adjustable rear bar and normally 400f 600r springs and was very happy with it on several cars for years. After I got rid of the car, I talked to someone in the industry who suggested that I test using the least bit of front bar I could find (meaning an OE HF bar) to help keep the nose flatter in low speed, tight corners. Turn 7 at Mid-Ohio, the right hander at the bottom of the Esses, comes to mind.

I will likely build another of these cars soon and will likely try it.

 

500F/700R, ST rear bar set as stiff as she'll go and no front bar.

Removing it knocked over a second off my Summit times from the previous session.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Balled S2K &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">500F/700R, ST rear bar set as stiff as she'll go and no front bar.

Removing it knocked over a second off my Summit times from the previous session.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

1 second with no other changes to the car? That would be a pretty significant data point if that's the case.

CRX Lee, I too have heard about the use of the HF front bar. I guess it's something of a compromise between the OEM Si bar and no bar at all. So you were running no front bar at 400# up front, eh? I'm wondering if there's a point at which the front spring rate affects the ability to run with/without the front bar.

I know that there are no right answers, but I'm always surprised at how varied ITA CRX competitors are when it comes to this. I think the majority fall on the side of "no bar," however. Is that just because the rest of them haven't gotten around to trying it yet?

-travis, who is currently running no front bar and can't, for the life of him, decide what he thinks of it.

 

Yup...Ran saturday...took it off Sunday AM at 6am and my first session out was a consistent one second faster on that particular track. YMMV.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Balled S2K &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Yup...Ran saturday...took it off Sunday AM at 6am and my first session out was a consistent one second faster on that particular track. YMMV.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Well, I can't argue with that. Did you feel one full second faster? As I learn this car I realize all over again that what feels fast isn't always fast. I'll be adding the ST rear bar shortly so I can do some back to back testing for myself, but I still think it's reasonable to adjust my driving to fit what is actually fastest for this car. Hell, I already have to learn the whole damn car anyway

 

Oh yeah...I felt a difference. The main reason I stiffened up the rear as much as I did was because I was getting so much push out of the front. Although a little twitchy in sharp transitions now, the car feels very neutral must everywhere else.

It feels very natural to me, and very similar to my S2000 did (if that's possible).

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by travis &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">others just remove the front and use the OEM rear. And this seems to be done within a narrow range of spring rates that are similar to mine (400-500F/500-700R).</TD></TR></TABLE>

We tried with and without the front and rear bars and settled for running the rear oem bar with the front bar disconnected on 500f 700r springs. But it's going to be different for everyone, since shock valving, spring rates, tires (and pressures), tracks, driver preference, etc. always vary. Try back to back sessions with it on and with it off with your current setup and see how you like it most.

 

91 Civic
450/650
ST Rear
No front.

Car feels great. I think leaving off the front bar also helps put some power down on the inside font exiting the corner. You don't have the bar levering the wheel up.

 

A Honda with a front bar? Haven't seen one of those in a while........

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MightyMouseTech &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">A Honda with a front bar? Haven't seen one of those in a while........ </TD></TR></TABLE>

That's the impression I'm getting, with similar responses on IT.com. I guess this isn't as big of a split as I originally thought.

Catch 22,

You bring up a good point. You are using an LSD, correct?

 

Has anyone tried running a 2nd gen ITA/H4 Integra with no front bar?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by travis &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

You bring up a good point. You are using an LSD, correct?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Of course. One of those fake OPM units .

 

I tried.

It wasnt working for me.
The car was constantly correcting itself when i didnt want it to!

The feel without it is better 10 fold!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by itaintegra52 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Has anyone tried running a 2nd gen ITA/H4 Integra with no front bar? </TD></TR></TABLE>

Interesting thought, Ron. The HC weight for that car is set @ 2480. Bit more weight than the HC weight for the H4 CRX @ 2175.

Tried disconnecting my front bar @ Sears (Infineon). It felt good but didn't net me lower lap times. This is on my H4 Civic coupe.

 

Come on Mike.... take the front bar off and throw it as far as you can.

 

Well I guess the only way to know for sure is to try it, I never ran a front bar on my 1st gen crx when I was racing it and liked how it felt but we are talking a lot heavier car. I have 2 SCCA races to play with it before my first H/C race.