Well I'm about 50 pages into it and I hate it. It seems to me that he spends most of his time either over-simplifying, or simply being wrong.

I didn’t really mind the “torque wins races, Horsepower sells cars” chapter, complete with the drawing of the Horsepower & Torque curve that somehow intersect at about 4500 RPM (which is impossible..) But what just caused me to put the book down and comment on it is the fact that he just finished explaining that when a car oversteers, it turns "too sharply". Apparently, which the back end comes around, this tightens the radius of the turn too much, and explains it further with a drawing of a car oversteering, and following a path that curves too tight and inside the desired path.

On the other and maybe I am the one who is wrong, and all the Formula D guys have unlocked the secrets to getting the best lateral grip out of a car through the use of 60 degree slip angles.

Anyone else have any comments on this book? It is my first "how to race cars" book and I am very disappointed.

 

You might have a debate brewing with RR98ITR (Scott).

 

I have no idea what your rant is all about. As long as you have the shovel out, keep digging and give us a clue why you think Ross is "wrong".

Rick

 

Ross Bentley's books would not make my list of suitable "first" books on driving racing cars.

Go find the book that's associated with the Skip Barber school - it's one of the best for this purpose.

Scott, who doesn't understand your problem with his description of oversteer as you've described it - it's accurate. He's not advising you that that's the fast way to drive.

 

Well, I agree with that - he doesn't say that oversteer makes you faster, in fact he says the opposite. But his description of it suggests contradicts this.

He says & illustrates that for any given speed, oversteer & extremely high slip angles give you a tighter turning radius then if you maintain a small slip angle and neutral grip.

I've read another 45 pages and there is plenty of great info, and I guess its enjoyable to read... Its just that everything I've ever read (either on this board or elsewhere), experienced, or seen, suggests the above is not true.

- Sean, who doesn’t discount the man’s experience or expertise, but who also knows the ability to convey a topic effectively comes from more then just having a mastery of it – which is why, if the opinions I ask for say its good as gold, then the only thing that can be said is “oh, ok”.

 

"...it is the fact that he just finished explaining that when a car oversteers, it turns "too sharply". Apparently, which the back end comes around, this tightens the radius of the turn too much, and explains it further with a drawing of a car oversteering, and following a path that curves too tight and inside the desired path."

I think I understand the problem with the phrasing here. Just because a car "rotates" does not mean that that car will actually "turn" more sharply.

Is that the problem you are having with the phrasing?

I second the suggestion of checking out Skip Barber's Book.

 

Drive To Win (ooops) is a good starter book. It will leave you frustrated though, since Smith seems to address a slightly less technical audience.

Also oversteer doesn't necessarily mean spinning. Smith descirbes oversteer in a similar manner.


Modified by GSpeedR at 11:32 AM 3/10/2004

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Greyout &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">He says & illustrates that for any given speed, oversteer & extremely high slip angles give you a tighter turning radius then if you maintain a small slip angle and neutral grip.</TD></TR></TABLE>
It will. Right off the track. It sounds like you're assuming that a tighter turning radius is what you want (if not, sorry for misunderstanding). It's not. Not necessarily anyway.
Anyway, I third the recommendation for Going Faster - The Skip Barber book

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RR98ITR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Ross Bentley's books would not make my list of suitable "first" books on driving racing cars.

Go find the book that's associated with the Skip Barber school - it's one of the best for this purpose.
</TD></TR></TABLE>


Going Faster by Skip Barber Racing School



My favorite read thus far. Makes for great passtime when taking 5 plus hour flights.

Which reminds me to finish what I started.

 

I never recommend Ross's books to anyone I might have to race against someday.

 

I too like them. Another very interesting version is inner speed secrets. Very cool and often overlooked stuff. It deals with the menal aspect of racing and preparing for sports.

The really nice thing with improving your mental racing abilities / focus, ect. is that it is free and can really improve your driving skills. Yes, it takes more effort to tune your mind then it does your car, but totally worthwhile.

 

I've yet to read his book but I learned a TON about the line at Seattle (now Pacific Raceway) watching Bentley in an Atlantic car. We even talk about the "Ross Bentley line" in 3A/B.

K

 

Jeez, I consider his two books THEE racing how-to books. And they helped me a ton in my first SM race.

 

Oversteer does tighten your line, if you don't countersteer.

I like that book, but I'm glad it wasn't the first one I read, and I'm glad I had some experience with driving before I read Bentley's.

 

greyout, i think youre in a serious minority in not liking bentleys book. other than alan johnsons book "driving in competition", there really isnt a more basic starter book. (johnsons book is way less than basic and i would just skip it, one nights read anyway, just good for historical perspective) a better, more practical book for the serious club racer is "WINNING: a racecar drivers handbook" not often read, but has a wealth of information from where to camp in the paddock to how to manage your tires through the season and how to make passes. but honestly, if you need someone explaining to you what "oversteer" means, then you need to do a bit more research. "drive to win" has the best explanation of defining oversteer/understeer conditions.

im going to further plug the book, read the reviews, and even some samples of the text. seriously, anyone wanting to race should read this.
http://www.durequip.com/winning/

 

I read both of Ross Bentley's books and thought both were excellent.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Greyout &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I didn’t really mind the “torque wins races, Horsepower sells cars” chapter, complete with the drawing of the Horsepower & Torque curve that somehow intersect at about 4500 RPM (which is impossible..) </TD></TR></TABLE>

Haven't read it, but I'd have to agree that it would be hard to trust a book that gets these two things wrong in the first 50 pages.

 

But it didn't get it wrong.

 

I read the bently book and thought it was good, but read it when I was very much a beginner. It defnitly helped get in the right frame of mind for proper car control.

Also though he does seem to have a minor contradiction in his book it is like anything you have to put some common sence into it.

-nate

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by granracing &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">But it didn't get it wrong. </TD></TR></TABLE>

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">the Horsepower & Torque curve that somehow intersect at about 4500 RPM</TD></TR></TABLE>

Please help me understand how this could be correct. Goes against everything I know about how to calculate HP. Different type of HP?

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I didn’t really mind the “torque wins races, Horsepower sells cars” chapter,
</TD></TR></TABLE>

This is very misleading. We all know that torque *and* the ability to create torque across a wide rev range are needed win races. HP is a simple but imprecise way of describing how well a motor makes torque at higher RPM. A better figure of merit would be the area under the curve for the usable rpm range, but HP numbers are accessible.

That phrase is useful as a beating stick to get people *out* of a peak-HP mindset, but it doesn't belong as the title to a chapter in an authoritative text.

Again, I haven't read it, and I wouldn't based on what I am hearing. Not my type of book.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Please help me understand how this could be correct. Goes against everything I know about how to calculate HP. Different type of HP?</TD></TR></TABLE>
I've seen plots with a different Y-axis for torque than for HP, could this be the case here? Also, maybe it was a quick/careless hand-drawn illustration/graphic?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tyson &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">greyout, i think youre in a serious minority in not liking bentleys book. other than alan johnsons book "driving in competition", there really isnt a more basic starter book. (johnsons book is way less than basic and i would just skip it, one nights read anyway, just good for historical perspective) a better, more practical book for the serious club racer is "WINNING: a racecar drivers handbook" not often read, but has a wealth of information from where to camp in the paddock to how to manage your tires through the season and how to make passes. but honestly, if you need someone explaining to you what "oversteer" means, then you need to do a bit more research. "drive to win" has the best explanation of defining oversteer/understeer conditions.

im going to further plug the book, read the reviews, and even some samples of the text. seriously, anyone wanting to race should read this.
http://www.durequip.com/winning/</TD></TR></TABLE>

All three of Bentley's books are excellent. I just re-read book 2 while on a trip (cause it is nice and portable) and learned a little more. I would also agree about the book WINNING. That was a good read. I would also not worry too much about the RPM common point on the charts for torque and HP. It is of course not 4500 RPM if scales match, but that is not what the author is trying to tell you. Torque coming off a corner is what you need, because at that point you are not at the peak HP point. Read an engine book if you want to know about engines. Ross's books are about driving!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MechE00 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I've seen plots with a different Y-axis for torque than for HP, could this be the case here? Also, maybe it was a quick/careless hand-drawn illustration/graphic?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Probably the quick/careless thing. I'm just a details guy (read occasionally **** retentive).

While I'm harping on the details - am I the only one here who is pissed at Grassroots Motorsports for publishing those tiny, unreadable, useless shock dyno charts in some articles? Why do they even bother? C'mon guys, gimme a legend, thicker lines, and some distinguishable colors

Gee, I wonder if GRM would be interested in hiring an ****-retentive car geek who knows how to properly format charts!

 

I bought the book about 4 years ago for travelling across the country and I've read it a few times since then. I even had the book spiral bounded for ease of reading. Lets remember that what is written are his methods of racing and form. I'm not the scientist type that most of you are, but I think the book was well written. I like how he relates his experience into set up and method rather than just state the "propper" way to do things. Gets a from me.

&lt;--Starting to read it again tonight.