I'm 36. I've seen plenty of ******* manuevers in my time.
I thought I'd seen it all. "People at their worst" so to speak, but yesterday I saw a new one. I'm an admitted misanthrope and this one baffled even me. I *still* haven't figured it out.

Went up to Macon yesterday to autocross. I was pretty tired from getting in late from Road Atlanta Saturday night, but Renee and I had promised Alex we'd take her, so I got myself up, slammed a couple of mountain dews, and got my race on again.
Alex had finished well in Novice class at the previous event (her 2nd one) and was dying to try it again. She's feeling the improvements as a driver and really liking it as a hobby. Excellent stuff from a 16 year old girl.
At the mid-point of the day she's a close 3rd (out of 9 in class) and really confident she can get 2nd place if she does well in the afternoon. The only other female in novice is a woman driving a brand new EVO (this is foreshadowing BTW) but she is a good 10 seconds slower than Alex in raw time. PAX gap is even bigger.

Alex performs well, knocking off another 1.5 seconds in the afternoon runs. We're confident she's taken 2nd place (in her 3rd event EVER. And remember, she just turned 16 a week ago.) doing the PAX in our heads.

Now, back to people being ********:
I notice during the last of the afternoon runs that there is a really tall person in the driver seat of the EVO. Definately NOT the woman that was driving it in the afternoon. I'm seeing it from the back, so I don't know who it is. I'm thinking to myself that surely they won't count these times for that car, but just in case I call over the regional director (who was fortunately standing a few feet away) and point it out to him. We both agree that jumping in with a lost Novice and driving their cars isn't such a bad thing to do, and surely they'll inform T&S.

Along comes the trophy presentation. Alex is sooooo thrilled that she's taken 2nd place... Nope... She's handed 3rd place.
2nd place... Yep, you guessed it, the woman in the EVO.

I'm pissed. Really pissed. But before I start yelling "Thats not yours you bastard!" in the trophy presentation I grab the director and we pull a copy of the times (the trophy presentation is still going on, but almost done). Sure enough, the raw times on the EVO went from being in the 60s all day to suddenly a couple of 47s on the last runs. The timing and scoring person hadn't noticed and wasn't informed of the driver change.

I was massively, visably pissed. A couple of grown adults had just stolen a trophy from a 16 year old girl. The guy driving the EVO in the afternoon??? Last years regional Street Mod champion. Yes folks, they used HIS times in the car, didn't inform T&S what they were doing, and took the trophy with a smile. Excellent!!!
Meanwhile, Alex looks like someone just let the air out of her.

The director promises me he'll handle it if I cool off and not beat anyone with a jack handle. He goes and talks to the EVO folks who admit to him what they did, but KEEP THE ******* TROPHY!!! OMG!!! I can't even begin to wrap my brain around how that trophy has any meaning to them whatsoever. WTF?
Meanwhile, Alex gets the 2nd place trophy she's earned, but the presentation is long over and shes been cheated out of getting it in front of her peers. Shes a little happier, but not much.

I was kept far away from those people for the remaining short time we were there, which was probably best. But right about now I'm not sure there won't be a confrontation at the next event.
Maybe I'll be cooled off by then. Maybe not.

Scott, who almost went to jail over a $5 trophy yesterday.

 

Does the SM driver run National events?

Give us names. People like that are f--king jerks, and deserve to be "outed." That's disgusting.

However, in some sense, I'm not surprised. It's pathetic what some people will do for a $5 trophy at a local event. Hell, it's pathetic what some people will do at a National level event, too, but I've seen much pettier stuff go on at local events, especially when someone thinks that they are "entitled" to a trophy over someone else.

Karen

 

Scott,
I completely share your outrage and applaud the fact that you had enough self control to not make it worse (I can't imagine that Alex would have been that much happier if you had wrapped that tire iron around one of those people's neck - maybe if she could have... ) On the other hand, maybe next time they compete, they will be hitting a cone around the station where you are working??? Karma is funny that way.

All I can say is that I saw a very appropriate bumper sticker this morning:
"the more people I meet, the more I like my dog"

Sebastien, who has long been convinced that people are ********.

 

While I'm not surprised... the idea of swapping drivers to win a novice trophy... I can't find the words to describe how low that is...

I'm a little confused how they "chose" to keep the trophy. I suppose this is why I don't volunteer for positions of authority. I would have personally banned both of them from further events when they declined to return the trophy. The fact that they were intending to defraud the group is bad enough, but showing no remorse after being caught is rediculous.

I second the vote that names should be given. Public ridicule is a much better alternative than personal confrontation - primarily because I believe they SHOULD be outed as the cheaters that they are, and also because people like this would most certainly have you in jail should tempers get heated.

 

Damn

You know what? Until I got to the part about keeping the trophy I was on the Evo's side thinking they just weren't thinking and made an honest mistake in not telling T&S. But keeping the trophy is downright low.


I had a bad cheater last month at an event at A&M (Texas for those that don't know). I was running in STS and Im usually very competitive in it. Well this time this early-90's GTI is kicking butt in STS and Im thinking "wow, what a great driver". I see his car as he's getting ready to run again and I notice there are no treads on the tires. I get closer and see that they are Hoosier A's. Now since I dont run with A&M very often I thought maybe they allow race rubber in STS in thier events. So I call over an official and point it out to him. He shakes his head making a joke about people not understanding the STS mean Street Tire! He goes to the driver of the car to set him straight and the guy starts getting pissed! Then he thinks its my friend that turned him in instead of me and starts hassling him.

Sheesh, some people!

 

Sounds like a really good opportunity to write a "letter to the editor" of the regional newsletter about cheating and sportsmanship. If you keep it not too long, bite your tongue on the ferocity and don't name specific names, you can likely get it published.

You can always infer who it was by mentioning novice class at the recent event and getting beaten for second place by a ringer driver non-novice then they did the unsportsmanlike keeping of the trophy. Good chance the results of said event will be in the same publication. This way it is out for everyone to see.

 

It seems to me it was a simple oversight by whoever was running T&S. No one was intentionally trying to make a 16 year old girl upset. It's the novice class for goodness sake. The other driver in question was a novice too. Sure, she did not earn the trophy. The organizers gave it to her mistakenly. But to expect them to just take it out of her hands after she was awarded it is unreasonable IMHO. I can understand you being frustrated with their mistake, but I think the organizers in your situation handled the oversight about as well as they could. We've had similar things happen in our region too, and it's normally handled the same way.

Andrew

 

winning second place in your 3rd event
watching someone take your trophy from you....

having your mom's boyfriend go to jail over that $5 trophy

priceless.....


i would concur with you scott....that was an assine moe on their part....

 

Racing = ego.

what happened sucks and was a completely ******** move, but did it really surprise you?

 

That is one of the worst displays of sportsmanship I've heard of in while (especially in autox). One of the things of like most about going to these events is that you don't see crap like that. Had I witnessed/been envolved in that during my 2nd event I'm not sure I would have stuck with it. I hope she'll stick with it and keep going to events despite a couple people being jerks.


On a side note... this regional SM guy only got 2nd place in the novice class? sucka!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by CRX Lee &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Sounds like a really good opportunity to write a "letter to the editor" of the regional newsletter about cheating and sportsmanship....... </TD></TR></TABLE>


What he said.
However, I think you need to have a face to face, or at least a email exchange with the person before you publicly "call them out". If the roles were reversed (just for sake of argument), I'll bet a nickle you'd think they were a ***** if they ran to the regional race publication before talking to you face to face.

They need to know what they did was wrong, and they need to know who it affected. Talk to them sooner rather than later and stay civil.

$.02

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by aklucsarits &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">It seems to me it was a simple oversight by whoever was running T&S. No one was intentionally trying to make a 16 year old girl upset. It's the novice class for goodness sake. The other driver in question was a novice too. Sure, she did not earn the trophy. The organizers gave it to her mistakenly. But to expect them to just take it out of her hands after she was awarded it is unreasonable IMHO. I can understand you being frustrated with their mistake, but I think the organizers in your situation handled the oversight about as well as they could. We've had similar things happen in our region too, and it's normally handled the same way.

Andrew </TD></TR></TABLE>

While I agree that the "right" thing to do in this situation does not involve a tire iron, you can't forget that novice drivers don't necessarily have novice competitive drives. What's the biggest excuse you hear from people who don't get out to an autocross? "My car's not ready and I'm afraid I would look stupid."

Either way, congrats on a well deserved 2nd place. Just remind her that in 2 year's she'll be fighting for that 1st place trophy and she'll still be kicking the crap out of that other "team."

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Watkinsm3 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

On a side note... this regional SM guy only got 2nd place in the novice class? sucka!</TD></TR></TABLE>

Ha, ha! That's what I was thinking.

-travis, who looks forward to the next episode...after Scott's had some time to plan

 

I'd have to say it was an oversight on the T&S people too. (They have a lot to do to get results out in a timely manner) I think they did handle it the best they did.

Part of the solice of this is that your daughter UNDERSTANDS she earned 2nd. Solo is for the fun of it, 1st and formost. Trophys should be a distant 2nd or 3rd over driving and friendsips from the event.

Anecdote: I know how she feels. Imagine being at the Nationals ProSolo Finale awards, and being told in front of everyone you came in 2nd instead of 1st? That happened to me in Topeka last year.

--kC

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by KC &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Anecdote: I know how she feels. Imagine being at the Nationals ProSolo Finale awards, and being told in front of everyone you came in 2nd instead of 1st? That happened to me in Topeka last year.

--kC
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Well. you are pretty slow...

Exactly the point though... it is for the driver and they're own improvement, but I'd HATE to see someone not comeback (especially if they liked the sport had the knack for it) just because a rare (and I do think it is rare in autox) event where someone needed cheat. I do assume it was intentional because the trophy was kept not returned.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by aklucsarits &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">It seems to me it was a simple oversight by whoever was running T&S. </TD></TR></TABLE>


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Watkinsm3 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I do assume it was intentional because the trophy was kept not returned.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Its not the other Novice driver thats the issue. Its the very experienced guy that was driving her car that knew exactly what was going on and made no effort to make things right. Not even after confronted by the director.

I won't give his name publicly and I won't write a letter to the newsletter. His regional officials (and he runs every event) know what happened and were very unhappy with him. Other folks that were standing in the area when all of this went down in the presentation know as well. Thats enough. Its a small region.


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by aklucsarits &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> No one was intentionally trying to make a 16 year old girl upset. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Maybe not. But someone's completely unacceptable actions had this result.
Six of one, half dozen of another.

 

That sucks, but at least she got 2nd. Catch22 will you all be at Turner Field next weekend, I will, its my 2nd race and my first in my Civic. Your Civic looked good Sat.

 

Is this a trophy, like a real trophy? or is this a "shot glass for 3rd, wine glass for 2nd, beer glass for 1st" kind of thing?

I guess I can be more upset if it is actually a trophy/plaque that says "2nd Place" on it.

But the only thing I'd _really_ care about in the end are the published results.

Schmuck rating on the SM guy: 3 out of 5... but then again, I wasn't there, don't know both sides.

I wonder who was more upset, though, you, or Alex? I'm sure she appreciated you sticking up for her, though!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MechE00 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Is this a trophy, like a real trophy? or is this a "shot glass for 3rd, wine glass for 2nd, beer glass for 1st" kind of thing?

I guess I can be more upset if it is actually a trophy/plaque that says "2nd Place" on it.

But the only thing I'd _really_ care about in the end are the published results.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

I agree with you now but when I stop and think back on when I first started. The trophies were important no matter how small they were. They built my confidence. I think that confidence is almost as important when you are starting out as seat time. Seat time breeds confidence but if you can have that confidence early on you're ahead of the game. Now... local trophies just fill up my bar so I can have even more people over for BBQs and parties

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MechE00 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I wonder who was more upset, though, you, or Alex? I'm sure she appreciated you sticking up for her, though! </TD></TR></TABLE>

Good point, you're probably some-what correct about that but I'm sure it hurt her to get bumped in public like that... especially when you're sixteen.

 

That's bullshit.

The director should have had the ***** to call foul.

 

That totally sucks.....

Just trying to figure out what the hell you would gain by doing that...... a trophy?
You can go and get one made for next to nothing, if thats all your in it for.

Really feel bad for your daughter......but at least she knows....and now so does the H-T Clan.

: For your self control.

 

The guy who drove the EVO knew exactly what rule he was breaking. He should be banned or points deducted, or at least black listed.

If the chick is so desperate for a trophy, she could just buy one. It has no real meaning to her anyway.

My guess is that the guy was trying to get into the chick's pants. Looser.

 

Wow. That has to be one of the shittiest stories I've read in awhile.

I go conekilling for fun and to hang out with friends. So I can't believe someone would go that far to cheat an win a trophy for someone else. I will admit that winning a trophy is kind of nifty (even when the first place winner was driving my car at the time and I got second ... ) but I really can't fathom why anyone would go through all of that just for a $5 plaque.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Wai &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
My guess is that the guy was trying to get into the chick's pants. Looser.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Probably.


Modified by thk at 2:49 PM 3/8/2004

 

Reminds me of something very similar in my earlier years of autocrossing. I had the street tire field covered by over 2 seconds at this one event. Then this guy in an old busted 300ZX went out and with the benefit of a timer malfunction beat me by over 3 seconds. That time was 12+ seconds faster than any of his other runs.

I protested.
I brought it to the attention of the event organizers, auto-X VP, etc.
They gave him the trophy anyway AND HE TOOK IT!!!
I was pissed.

If it had made a difference in season points I would have howled.

But that certainly sucks for you guys...

 

Scott~ your outrage is totally understandable, and probably much worse because it directly affects a member of your family. I understand this, too.

I agree with Karen -- let's find out this guy's name and subject him to as much public humiliation and embarrasment as possible. What a *****.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by aklucsarits &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">It seems to me it was a simple oversight by whoever was running T&S. </TD></TR></TABLE>
The lady shouldn't have accepted the trophy at the presentation.


If it's any consolation, people are also stupid.