i'm sure you're all familiar with the spoon b-series block brace that made it possible for their CTR to rev to 12K safely. well me and a friend were kicking round the idea of reinforcing a block by similar means but at a fraction of the cost, instead of creating an aluminum gridle that bolts to the 5 main caps, why not just weld some hefty steel rods or bar stock arcoss them, leaving gaps were nescessary for crank clearance and oil flow. this seems like it would be a cheap effective way to reinforce the block and prevent vibration at high rpms.
i'm posting this for a critique so feel free to point out flaws if you see them.

 

well, when people generally try to weld on the aluminum blocks, if they torch it just a little too long, bye bye block, the thing will light up in flames

 

Aren't the caps made of steel?

 

Doesn't matter. Holding the torch close enough to get the steel welded will also cause this. Not to mention the warping that will be caused by welding it. You'd have to re-align everything, and blueprint it. It would be easier, and cheaper to just buy a DART block, or get a sleeved block done.

 

And how much would this thing weigh? besides the issues previously brought up.

 

we're not talking about the aluminum side, just the steel caps on the bottom side, the issue of distorting the block could be solved by doing the actual welding with the caps on a scrap block, the any further worries about warpage to the caps could be cured by a trip to the machine shop to have them mic the caps, check check their alignment and regrind anything needed. the whole thing would probably add no more than 4 pounds which would not actually be part of the rotating assembly

 

So did you do it?

 

why in the hell would you want to rev to 12k?

There isnt a single cam out there that makes power that high... Thats not even going into specifics about the head being able to breathe at that rpm, an IM that can feed enough air...

you wanna rev to 12K safely, get a motorcycle

Theres been a ton of people revving to 11 with out any major mod's so Im assuming that if you absolutely had to rev that high it can be done with a fairly simple configuration.

ut seiously, anything over 9500 consistantly isnt going to be reliable anyway...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SoCalude98 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
There isnt a single cam out there that makes power that high... </TD></TR></TABLE>
but we're talking about a b-series motor, not expecting to make power, just a nice plateu,as opposed to a mojor drop that you would see after a shift. with the proper head work, you could cut through an auto X course in first gear.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by thad &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">we're not talking about the aluminum side, just the steel caps on the bottom side, the issue of distorting the block could be solved by doing the actual welding with the caps on a scrap block, the any further worries about warpage to the caps could be cured by a trip to the machine shop to have them mic the caps, check check their alignment and regrind anything needed. the whole thing would probably add no more than 4 pounds which would not actually be part of the rotating assembly</TD></TR></TABLE>
There would be no way to grind and resize the caps if they were welded together,instead why don't you weld up a gridle to lay over the caps and bolt down.

 

not a bad idea, and it eliminates all the warpage concerns.

 

but why??? there is nothing wrong with it as it is? your chasing a problem that insnt there.. keep it simple guys..

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by thad &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
but we're talking about a b-series motor, not expecting to make power, just a nice plateu,as opposed to a mojor drop that you would see after a shift. with the proper head work, you could cut through an auto X course in first gear.</TD></TR></TABLE>

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SoCalude98 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">why in the hell would you want to rev to 12k?

There isnt a single cam (as in single type of cam, not SOHC) out there that makes power that high</TD></TR></TABLE>

Your not going to make power that high so its pointless to rev that high...

understand?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MHRacing-310 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">but why??? there is nothing wrong with it as it is? your chasing a problem that insnt there.. keep it simple guys.. </TD></TR></TABLE>
I agree,but he asked.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SoCalude98 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
There isnt a single cam (as in single type of cam, not SOHC) out there that makes power that high

Your not going to make power that high so its pointless to rev that high...

understand?</TD></TR></TABLE>
ah, my bad. but you gotta realize saying "single cam" in a honda forum is like yelling "Fire" in a crowded theatre, anyway, like i said before, i don't expect to make power up that high, but i also don't expect any dramatic drop offs,
this is just an idea i'm toying with, i have no attempted it yet, and i probably won't for a while. but why do you want to be that guy that says "no you can't". i figured i'd post the idea up and let people pick apart the flaws to make it more feasable.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SoCalude98 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">why in the hell would you want to rev to 12k?

There isnt a single cam out there that makes power that high... </TD></TR></TABLE>

There's not? OK, if you say so.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by J. Davis &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

There's not? OK, if you say so.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Nothing off the shelf anyway... I havent seen or heard of anything that does

 

this probably won't apply here where most people here are making some big power numbers....but in the video where they were demonstrating the difference between the 11k spoon motor and a stock CTR.....

it was beneficial to rev it that much higher on an upward slope where the small displacement would suffer if it had to be shifted as it was already right at redline.

This is probably something a serious club racer would want to look into [where cams and portwork are illegal in a particular class, but block bracing and oil pan baffling are allowed] instead of a drag racer where the racing surface is usually very flat.....(captain obvious here)

 

^

 

RLZ's NA drag car shifts at, and makes power until, 11K. I know it's not their ideal setup, but with running a business and directing funds back into their business, their drag car has taken back burner to a lot of the stuff they have going on.

I've discussed with Brad Z some of the dynamics behind making an obscene power NA engine, that pulls to 12K or so. Valvetrain modifications are extensive, and engine longevity is compromised - you won't roll up next to one on the street - but it is entirely possible if you get away from the conventional low lift long duration camshaft mentality and look towards what most of the big power upper end V8s run. You know, get away from Hondas and out into the rest of the world... there are only 1000 other ways to do things than the current popular method found on the HT bandwagon, and at least 10 or 12 of those methods are distinctly superior.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by J. Davis &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I've discussed with Brad Z some of the dynamics behind making an obscene power NA engine, that pulls to 12K or so. Valvetrain modifications are extensive, and engine longevity is compromised - you won't roll up next to one on the street - but it is entirely possible if you get away from the conventional low lift long duration camshaft mentality and look towards what most of the big power upper end V8s run. You know, get away from Hondas and out into the rest of the world... there are only 1000 other ways to do things than the current popular method found on the HT bandwagon, and at least 10 or 12 of those methods are distinctly superior.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Thats says a lot

Valve Train + ?