Well tack another one onto the list....... I FINALLY got it running, after 8 months of spending well over 10g's its running.... wouldn't to save its life at first but then we realized we had the firing order all f-ed up and there it was..... so tack another one on the list..... whats that make like 5 THAT ARE ACTUALLY IN PRELUDES?? 3 that I actaully know of..... XES, PrecisionH23 and now ME!! For those who don't know here's the setup...

GE Sleeved H23A (o-ringed, line bored, 2mm over)
JE pistons
Pauter Rods
ARP head studs
Head work by Rapid Transit (aka me and best friend using turbo johns shop)
T66 turbo, custom spec by John Burris
Stock ECU/ AFC till break in is over....... then switching to Motec, when I have time
Rev Hard tube manifold, tial WG, vortech BOV
ACL bearings
440cc injectors, switching to 880's when motec goes in
micro polished crank
Factory gaskets
C&R radiator
Moroso Oil Pan
POS DP for now
Motor Built by yours truly with the help of Bobby/Robert/John Burris

DSS stage 2 axles
Quaife LSD
Homemade Gears in tranny, or new factory parts..... either way, more or less newer and better.
CM clutch..... Tilton coming when the CM blows up
GE scattershield

Anything else you can think of, i'm sure I have it!

One problem thou...... I can't seem to get the coolant to flow, maybe the thermostat is bad....... but its new so... got me there, flows fine with the thermostat out no clue what could be wrong...... ideas?? Fixed it

I'll let you guys know how it drives one i figure out the coolant problem, hopefully the only problem I have left!! I'm just glad its finally all together again!




Modified by spoolinlude at 3:09 AM 3/9/2004

 

so when its warmed up it doesnt flow? u might want to try another thermo or maby its the water pump?

 

Sounds Good...What compression are you running?

 

Mine been running too. Buts its in storage, i will break it out come mid may............

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by spoolinlude &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">One more thing...... on tial WG's do you need that steel ring they come with? seems like mine is leaking now?</TD></TR></TABLE>


yes you need that...it goes in the bottom of the wg, then it seals when you bolt it up to the mani

 

Yeah figured that out about the WG, so its all good now there...... I took the thermostat out completly..... still overheating....... I have a C&R raditator, that should cool the **** out of my motor, maybe its the fan?? its not turning on sometimes, but i thought my rad would be enough to keep it cool anyway..... guess not, so i'll put the fan on a switch and see if that helps....... which leads me to my next point---

It stayed cool long enough to take it for a spin, feels real good... really good, it stayed cool the whole time we drove it, but when it sat for like 4-5mins when i got it home, thats when it started to over heat, so i'm guessing fan..... if thats not it, i dunno what it is

 

9.5:1 CR

 

i have a c&r for the 4th gen lude. The fan is just plug and play. It goes on for me at about 192 degrees farenheit if i let it sit. Once i start driving it cools off on its own.

 

You should just break it in on the dyno with your motec. None of that 500-1000 miles break in BS.

 

I know that I don't need to really break it in, break in stages are usually for cams etc.. but since i have the old stockers in there, no worries..... see, the reason there's no motec in there yet is that i haven't had time to do two things.... #1, finish the harness..... #2 and more importantly.. i ain't that good with tuning it... hence the possible switch to electromotive, since my best friends uncle aka Turbo John Burris, is a dealer.... and knows the **** inside and out... he knows motec too, but not as well....... so its up in the air as of now

 

Any pics.

 

Damn, that is a crazy setup. If you ever come over to Maryland let me know. I would love to check it out.

 

Why would you run a motec rather than a Hondata?
Brian

 

Well brian....... if i told u i came across it for free, would that make you happy?? Well that and it came with my exhaust..... you know motec system exhaust yo!

Andy--What part of MD?

 

If you told me you got it for free, I'd say sell it for at least $1000 and buy a Hondata. You'd make money and end up with a better suited EMS for the vehicle.....unless Motec or someone started offering plug-and-play harnesses, I'd say it'll also save you time or money there as well.
Brian

 

Post up some pictures when you get a chance. I love hondata, but I think I am switching to AEM EMS in the near future. Remember, the EMS is only as good as its tuner.

I would say your set-up is easily capable of 500whp.

 

i was wondering when you were gonna poke your head in here anthony...

Brian~ I agree, hondata is the ****........ however the "turbo john" (best friends uncle) is among other things an electromotive dealer... people come from all over for him to tune thier e-motives, he also knows motec.... but i may go e-motive since he knows them so well....... the harness really isn't that bad, once u have all the connectors... and realize that honda sensors don't work, well some work, but they're usually innacurate......

pictures will come up either tuesday or wednesday... keep in mind, it doesn't look as baller as anthony's does...... but it should be a pretty nice running car!

 

damn 500hp? wow, i'm impressed you sprung for a high number so fast!! haha.... i think once i have the EMS figured out and the bigger injectors...... 500 shouldnt be a problem... the problem is figuring out how to use it

 

did you think about trying a coolant flush? maybe something is blocking it somewhere so it doesn't flow steadily. that's always a maybe. pinched hose or line somehwere, you never know. someone mentioned a bad waterpump, wouldn't it still flow if it was bad it would just leak?

 

for another turbo h23. hope you find out why your car is overheating. post pictures dude when you have a chance.

 

well i took the damn thermostat completly out and its flowing good, the only thing is that at idle when not moving it overheats, i'm hoping its only cuz the fan isn't on.... but other than that i have no idea why it won't stay cool.....

I know, pics will come soon.... sorry guys!

 

Why trade out Hondata for an AEM EMS? Unless you're running more than 28 psi or need more fine tuning capability for a drag only application (and you're making 650+ whp) Hondata will be a better EMS for a street car.

If he's such a great electromotive and motec tuner, then he should be good tuning a hondata as well.....tuning is tuning, systems and software are just the medium for the tuning.......that's silly to change out sensors, splice wiring, and use a more expensive system than you need just because that's what he's familiar with......

If my car can make 380 on a stock motor at 12psi on pump, this car had better damn well make 600+ on 30 psi and race gas If not then the motor is being under-utilized!
Brian

 

my friend's b17 integra has a similar problem and i did the mickey mouse switch like you want to do. it fixed the problem for a while but a week later it started to over heat a bit when he revs the engine. it sucks i dont have the proper tools to diagnost the real problem. so i hope the fans switch idea fixes the problem for you.

 

If tuned right, 500 should be no problem with the size turbo you are using as well as your fuel upgrades. Remember, if this car is your ONLY car then tuning on the conservative side for daily driving is a must.

Hondata is great. I love it, but I plan on doing my own tuning in the near future so you have to look at it from this point of view:

Upgrade from 4b to s200 - $300
Romeditor - $180
Pocket Programmer $180

So I would be spending $680 just so I could tune the motor myself. Sure I could stay 4b, but I would want the software so I could tune others cars as well. Instead of spending that $680, I can use that money plus the money from selling the 4b and avc-r boost controller to spring for an AEM EMS for pocket change. No having to deal with opening up my ecu and hooking up a pocket programmer to tune, no having to burn chips and etc. Instead, connect the laptop to EMS and you are ready for tuning on the fly. Save your changes, and you are done. End of story. I do agree however that on a daily driver motec is a little too much, hondata is all you really need. But if you have access to running and tuning a motec then why not?

As for tuning cars for hondata, I have temporary access to the things needed to tune a system. Hondata is great, I absolutely love it, and would recommend it to anyone who asks me about it. It has been proven time and time again for set-ups in the 600whp range and is great for daily driven cars. But the EMS has many options that the hondata does not (traction control for example), plus from the monetary aspect of the deal I can't go wrong. I also plan on dragging the car a lot more in the future and I really REALLY like the idea of traction control. I am still researching the EMS and I am not 105% sure of changing... but I am pretty sure I will swap out soon.

I agree but yet disagree with this statement. You are right to a point, but the rule of thumb when having your EMS tuned is to have a tuner use the system in which the are most familiar with. Remember, Joel has sex with goats... but does this mean he is a Ron Jeremy when it comes to women? nope Would I want my motor to be a guinea pig for a guy just learning a new system? I think not. The EMS is only as good as its tuner. Just because he can use motec does not mean he can sit down first try with zero problems and tune a hondata just as well as someone who has done so for 5-6yrs. Experience teaches you the tricks of the trade... but I do agree... this guy should be able to tune hondata no problem with a bit of practice. As far as sensors go, you can calibrate motec to use different sensors. Just a little FYI, our formula team at my University uses Motec to control our racecar engine. It is equivalent to the motors you find in the cbr 600's. On the setup we use all stock sensors besides air temp, wideband and TPS. The reason the TPS is diff is just because we don't use a stock TB. We did have to cut the cam sensor trigger wheel because it has to since one per rev.

http://www.motec.com/products/kits/hondakit.htm
Go there for more info on the motec.

On a side note, how many honda's has this guy tuned in the past?

lol. You love rubbing it in that you are stock huh? hehe. You forget to remember... we don't use that shitty thing you call VTECH! hehe. You have been very lucky with your motor and you have spent a lot of time on tuning... something that a lot of people skimp out on. Some of you recall the member 'Tyler' with the AEM EMS h22a hatch that was putting down 411whp right? Well unfortunately after running a 11.07 a rod went straight through his oil pan. As said before, he has a built block awaiting him so having a rod drop to him was no big deal.

When building a motor, some people want to shoot for safe power instead of peak power. Some want a combo of both. For example, when my motor was tuned it was tuned VERY conservatively and strictly for daily driving. I know (and handful of others out there) know my set-up could have easily hit mid-high 400 numbers as was with a little more timing advance on c16 and maybe a few more psi of boost... that is all heresay though. My tuner knew my motor was a daily driver and he wanted the motor to last, so it was tuned for being a daily driver. The motor was tuned to safely boost 20psi whenever I chose to do so... whether it was once a month or 7 days a week 365 days a year (not a good idea though). The motor has run 350whp daily though with zero major problems for over 7 months. Anyways, the set-up will have a few more tweaks and most likely hit the 500 barrier as well as running somewhere in the 11's.

Bottom line... it is expensive when something breaks. Call me a *****, but I would like to have my motor last. Ask, XES... all he needs is roughly 350whp daily and he smokes all of his competition. I think brian would agree with me if he ran 350whp every day on his stock motor it would not last too awfully long. When you guys run into problems that typically come along with turbo's, you will learn 'peak' power is over-rated. I rarely boost 20psi on my setup. The only reason I plan on tuning for 28psi is to push the motor to the limits and to help the heavy *** slug get into the 11's when drag raced.

And we all expect to see your prelude have at LEAST 615whp within the next year brian

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PrecisionH23a &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
The EMS is only as good as its tuner. Just because he can use motec does not mean he can sit down first try with zero problems and tune a hondata just as well as someone who has done so for 5-6yrs. Experience teaches you the tricks of the trade... but I do agree... this guy should be able to tune hondata no problem with a bit of practice. As far as sensors go, you can calibrate motec to use different sensors.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

John has been tuning e-motive ever since tec1 came out sometime in the 80's so he obviously knows it! You have to realize however that he is an old man and mostly a domestic/motorcycle guy, so he doesn't really see too many hondas, let alone hondatas..... The only other car he tunes agressivly is Sav Leones drag civic which runs motec, so he knows both..... However i know he is much more confortable with electromotive and would easily be able to make it a reliable semi-daily driver ( I have that supercharged pickup for everyday!).... Hence the reason I may sell him my motec in exchange for an electromotive, or he may just let me use one, we have several kickin around the shop...... but that all remains to be seen.

I know motec can change to accomodate sensors by changing out voltages etc.... we run motec on our car too!! Now while I can tune that.... I know I don't have enough experiece to tune my car, and as for John-- the only motec he tunes is in a methonal burning racecar running 44psi of boost...... so I'm not sure how he would do with a reliable setup... since in racing, reliability takes a backseat to horse power, unless its REALLY unreliable...

I'm well aware that the t66 can make up to and over 700hp...... I've seen it first hand make 685 hp on a b18 (in Savs old car), the t66 loves high boost, it is just getting into effieceny at 1 bar and doesn't fall out till almost 3 bar! However in my case, nothing more than 2bar will ever ever come out of there....

If i can have a reliable 350-400hp all the time, which shouldn't be a problem once i get the larger injectors in and the alcohol flowing, I'll be perfectly happy. I'm a broke bitch, so blowing this thing up isn't something i'd like to do anytime soon. Maybe once i get everything sorted out, i'll go back to the dyno, put a tuneup in for say 28psi and see if i can break into the low 11's.... maybe if i had another motor as a spare i'd try 35psi and see if i can hit the 10's............. One of these days, someone is going to do it.....