I was thinking today, and well, its funny a couple years ago on honda-tech, the bandwagon was on drag 3 / revhard turbo kits. Most people had kits....

Today, its all changed, most people put together their own kits, and frankly, theres a lot of messed up attempts.

First of all, what are the downside of buying a turbo kit?
Well, simply, **** poor fuel management, and just average parts.

But wait this is HT, the land of the cheapasses(yes even me, im cheap too )

What if a company offered a COMPLETE turbo kit w/ top of the line components and 'proper engine management'? Would it be worth spending a tad bit more for the solution and convenience to no headaches and problems? No having to burn crappy basemaps, no having to fly people like me in to tune their vehicles. No making a ghetto fit job. No band aid fixes

Yes, a truly 'bolt on' and boost solution. Is it possible though?

If so, Would the bandwagon steer a different way, would people buy kits again??

I'd love to hear everyones thoughts.

 

I think if you wanted to do something like that, it would as easy as partnering up with full race and their kit and getting the fuel management aspect setup. This kit will sell to a good majority of the import crowed.

However, a lot of people actually like going through the entire experience and being able to say I did it. Everyone can buy a kit. In addition, you might be openning the scene upto more problems when these unknowledgable kids come in, buy a kit, have it put on, and then wreck because they dont understand and or value the time and effort that goes into a project like that.

Even though my car is ******* up on me and pissing me off and making scary noises half the time, I love it. Im always trying to find some spare time to goto the AEM forums or HT and get some more knowledge so I could fix some more of the **** that I've broken along the way.

To make this short, from a pure business-profit point of view, I think you would make money, but you would have to be able to mass produce these kits for a large amount of buyers and then be potentially responsible for the stupid **** they do with them.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by integra-modder &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I think if you wanted to do something like that, it would as easy as partnering up with full race and their kit and getting the fuel management aspect setup. This kit will sell to a good majority of the import crowed.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

see you couldnt do that, most people who buy full-race kits have dramatically different motor setups, a lot are built, flows a lot more than stock, built for race setup, etc.

 

relatively speaking....

I was refering to a company with a reputaiton as good as theirs. The contents of the kit can be modified from their original kit.

 

gotcha, but this target would have to be customers w/ say a stock motor....

 

I thnk it would be great but maybe its a couple years too late???????

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SiRkid &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I thnk it would be great but maybe its a couple years too late???????
</TD></TR></TABLE>

what makes you say that?

 

Yes they are plenty with proper fuel management on stock motors. How would you change it, how would you sell it to people? I really find this post hard to comprehend. Good luck.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by primo8998 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Yes they are plenty with proper fuel management on stock motors. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Name one, and i meant proper Engine Managament....

 

I think most people can make their car turbocharged better and cheaper than buying a kit.

 

I thought you were talking about a stock motor???

 

i am talking about a stock motor.

 

why would i need an engine management then?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by primo8998 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">why would i need an engine management then?</TD></TR></TABLE>


For one, if you want your motor to last.

The reason being, drag kits rev hard kits etc. provide band aid solutions such as fmu's and inline pumps, w/ stock injectors....

Poor AFR curves, and not capable of running the proper ignition timing needed for a safely boosted motor.

 

So that is a tuner error. So Paxton's fmu doesnt work or inline pumps dont work? How big of injectors do you think you need to make what ever horsepower is in your head. What are you going do over that ? Nothing right. This world is not simple. You can not offer a turbo kit, with all the cool parts you want or think you need. Then add an engine management system, in your eyes it has to be plug and play, all for a near 2999. Might as well run an informercial. Hey maybe you can compete with the tornado. Then again myabe you can, people fell for that.


Modified by primo8998 at 8:02 AM 2/25/2004

 

I think you hit the nail on the head when you said people are cheap.. There are alot of variables that you have to consider though when piecing together a "kit."

If you're aiming it towards people that want to keep their motor stock and not build it, I think the revhard kit does a fairly good job already, minus the engine management. But.. although an fmu is obviously not the best fuel solution, I know people who have been running a drag kit for 3+ yrs w/ no problems on 7 psi, and probably wouldn't want to spend the extra ~$1k for a tuned hondata or aem.. So yes a good engine management is nice, but for some people the fmu is "good enough."

For people who are trying to make much more power and build a motor, the FR kit for example is perfect, or they'll piece together a setup themselves. People that are willing to go that far will want to choose their engine management.

I think "kits" are a good idea, but it's sure hard to please everyone. Not to mention that turbo integras/civics are starting to get a little dated. Most people already have turbos that would probably want one, so the market isn't as good as it used to be. The other thing is that there are so many different options already out their, I'd think you'd just be adding to an already saturated market. There's tons of used stuff floating around, and piecing together a kit is inexpensive, and you get the parts you want.

-Mike

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by primo8998 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">So that is a tuner error. So Paxton's fmu doesnt work or inline pumps dont work? How big of injectors do you think you need to make what ever horsepower is in your head. What are you going do over that ? Nothing right. This world is not simple. You can not offer a turbo kit, with all the cool parts you want or think you need. Then add an engine management system, in your eyes it has to be plug and play, all for a near 2999. Might as well run an informercial. Hey maybe you can compete with the tornado. Then again myabe you can, people fell for that.</TD></TR></TABLE>

im glad u think it cant be done

 

great response slowteg thanks

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mase &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">


For one, if you want your motor to last.

The reason being, drag kits rev hard kits etc. provide band aid solutions such as fmu's and inline pumps, w/ stock injectors....

Poor AFR curves, and not capable of running the proper ignition timing needed for a safely boosted motor. </TD></TR></TABLE>

As fas as engine management:

Im curious on how this would be any different then say a greddy kit or edelbrock kit (sohc) that uses a piggy back ecu.

ie. would it be a conservitavely tuned EMS or Hondata unit for each application. d16, b16, b18 etc. - almost like a basemap?

 

I don't think the bandwagon would sway...Alot of my friends are into vw's and a few have 1.8t's with APR's stg. 3 kit. There happy @ first but they all wish they had options like the honda market.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by psileepR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

As fas as engine management:

Im curious on how this would be any different then say a greddy kit or edelbrock kit (sohc) that uses a piggy back ecu.

ie. would it be a conservitavely tuned EMS or Hondata unit for each application. d16, b16, b18 etc. - almost like a basemap?</TD></TR></TABLE>

I think it could easily be done, VW Turbo kits come with a pre-programed chip, even Active autowerkes $10k+ bmw kits just use a pre-programed chip. basically plug and play, no tuning...

 

AUTRONIC!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by primo8998 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">AUTRONIC! </TD></TR></TABLE>

haha

 

like slowteg said there are many company already floodign the market with cheap turbo kits. both literally and figuratively.

i sincerely think that the people that would benefit a "compelete" turbo kit (w/ proper engine management) are those that are high end customers that want power and want to do it right and can afford somehting like a full race kit.
THE OTHER END OF THE TARGET MARKET

Targeting an audience that is "cheap" may be fruitless because they may not understand the added cost it would take for proper engine management.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SlowTeg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I think "kits" are a good idea, but it's sure hard to please everyone. Not to mention that turbo integras/civics are starting to get a little dated. Most people already have turbos that would probably want one, so the market isn't as good as it used to be. The other thing is that there are so many different options already out their, I'd think you'd just be adding to an already saturated market. There's tons of used stuff floating around, and piecing together a kit is inexpensive, and you get the parts you want.

-Mike</TD></TR></TABLE>

Thats very true. I remember 3 years ago when there were probably 5% of the current import stores and things of that nature. The suddenly, they started poping up like fungus. Many of these busnesses advertise, since 1987, Im like, WTF, if you were opened in 87, you would prob close the next day. Its hard to find shops and people that are still in for the love of cars and not in it to make a quick buck.

At anyrate, I think anyone thats willing to spend 1200 for an EMS, is probably aware of the other tunning per hour charges and so on. These people are probably not running stock blocks and so on, so it would be very hard to please that market. But the people who just see an intercooler and then ask what it is and then buy a kit the next day, it would work for them. If you had done this 2 years ago, you would have been above rev hard and everyone else, because thats where those kits lack. But the affordable technology for the hobbiest for engine management only came out within the last 1-2 years, so its wouldnt have been possible anyway.

what could that burning oil & rubber smell be?