as topic says.. i havent seen or heard of anyone yet. i wanna know what kinda potential this f20 or f22c has

 

near none have put in the toda cams....from what toda states...in order to drop in the spec b or c u have to have the toda pistons and rods...the toda spec a IMO are a waste due to the fact that u dont make that much more power...

 

the cams aren't a waste, they will make power but at a cost. Keep in mind, you can't just drop in cams and expect gains. The same thing applies to all engines. I used to think this engine was "strung out to the max" but have learned that there is more power to be gained. It'll be up to the driver in terms of how they want to achieve that power. Sure you can go forced induction like a comptech SC or vortech SC kit which provide good gains for the buck. BUT...not all will like that sort of power, I should say a small few wont like the FI route. I'm part of that minority that loves naturally aspirated cars, they're 2 different routes to take and on the s2000, NA is more expensive.

But, to go back on topic, a complete NA route isn't just cams, but will include a larger throttle body (s2000 uses same t-body as ITR), high output headers, a well designed intake and a good tuner with a good tuning medium, preferebly standalone. That's only talking about a setup that doesn't go into the internals where the possibilities are endless from head porting, cams, larger bore or even stroking.

 

n/a will get you more respect but its not very cost effective. if money was no issue, i'd rather have 300 hp n/a than 300 hp turbo/supercharged.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by vapor &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">the cams aren't a waste, they will make power but at a cost. Keep in mind, you can't just drop in cams and expect gains. The same thing applies to all engines. I used to think this engine was "strung out to the max" but have learned that there is more power to be gained. It'll be up to the driver in terms of how they want to achieve that power. Sure you can go forced induction like a comptech SC or vortech SC kit which provide good gains for the buck. BUT...not all will like that sort of power, I should say a small few wont like the FI route. I'm part of that minority that loves naturally aspirated cars, they're 2 different routes to take and on the s2000, NA is more expensive.

But, to go back on topic, a complete NA route isn't just cams, but will include a larger throttle body (s2000 uses same t-body as ITR), high output headers, a well designed intake and a good tuner with a good tuning medium, preferebly standalone. That's only talking about a setup that doesn't go into the internals where the possibilities are endless from head porting, cams, larger bore or even stroking. </TD></TR></TABLE>

i have to agree. i guess im part of the small minority that with ANY honda, id do NA over FI regardless of mone and HP. NA, to me, symbolizes precision building a car, meaning every little part counts and all feeds off each other for the maximum driving pleasure.(thats about as cheesy sounding i could get )

But anyways, Honda did an excellent job with these f-series angines and have yet to see anyone really open one up with full header-cat-exhaust-cams-etc. i saw pacmans which was awesome but never saw a dyno
so anymore input guys, lemme know

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JunIntegra &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

i have to agree. i guess im part of the small minority that with ANY honda, id do NA over FI regardless of mone and HP. NA, to me, symbolizes precision building a car, meaning every little part counts and all feeds off each other for the maximum driving pleasure.(thats about as cheesy sounding i could get )

But anyways, Honda did an excellent job with these f-series angines and have yet to see anyone really open one up with full header-cat-exhaust-cams-etc. i saw pacmans which was awesome but never saw a dyno
so anymore input guys, lemme know</TD></TR></TABLE>

with only CAI, header, exhaust and the AEM EMS, I gained avg. of 35whp over stock baseline that inlcuded a VAFC, intake and exhaust. That's more than enough for me and I'm really hesitant in swapping out internals b/c of the cost.

 

wow vapor, thats really good. i didnt know they could make that kinda power...i know 2k's generally make about 200whp stock so im guessing your around 230ish?
what company's products are you using?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by vapor &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

with only CAI, header, exhaust and the AEM EMS, I gained avg. of 35whp over stock baseline that inlcuded a VAFC, intake and exhaust. That's more than enough for me and I'm really hesitant in swapping out internals b/c of the cost. </TD></TR></TABLE>


what the hell!!!! who was your tuner and what is your secret...i havent seen any s2k make over 210whp...im still under the impression that the stock motor is worked almost to the max unless u spend a hella amount of doe to get the head ported...new pistons, rods, toda cams, aem ems, t-body, w/a nice intake or even ITB's....

hey vapor...do u have any dyno plots??? i would love to see some s2k that actually make more power than stock ( i mean more than 210whp)

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JunIntegra &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">wow vapor, thats really good. i didnt know they could make that kinda power...i know 2k's generally make about 200whp stock so im guessing your around 230ish?
what company's products are you using?</TD></TR></TABLE>

JunIntegra and Project SSAP1,

My car is not an exception or special. There are a few other ones around that are making more power than I am. I'm at 240whp with room for improvement, will hope to see 250whp after a few changes. At 240whp, that's about 265-270bhp (crank hp). Let's just say with 400lbs of weight reduction, that power feels really good mated with a 4.77 final drive. And keep in mind the 240whp the car is putting down is done without any cams, or pistons or any internal engine work. Got a few projects being worked on right now, mainly a re-engineered carbon intake manifold that I'm dying to wait for completion. As of today, mods are: toda headers, custom exhaust with resonator in replacement for the cat, K&N CAI and the AEM EMS running a mixture of 91 and 100 octane to yeild about a 95 octane rating. The higher octane fuel is used just as a safety margin but is not necessary. When running the EMS with the UEGO wideband o2 sensor, the EMS will operate just like the stock ECU, altering fuel and ignition maps depending on environment. Plus, it'll pull timing if it pings.

I have to say that the above was not possible without the AEM EMS, I can't believe more people aren't running it, it's a jewl for the car, similar to upgrading the final drive.

 

I post up a final dyno plot after all the tuning and when the car is in a shape I consider "finished" so it shouldn't be too long away in time.

 

that is awesome man! i havent heard of that much power being extracted from the f20c! i guess that aem ems is quite a jewel here on H-t. with those current mods, the toda A's should prove pretty impressive results. id definately leave the block alone, it already has great compression for street. how is daily driving and on the freeway with that power? must be awesome

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JunIntegra &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">that is awesome man! i havent heard of that much power being extracted from the f20c! i guess that aem ems is quite a jewel here on H-t. with those current mods, the toda A's should prove pretty impressive results. id definately leave the block alone, it already has great compression for street. how is daily driving and on the freeway with that power? must be awesome</TD></TR></TABLE>

After driving a standard comptech SC car and my car on the same road right after each other, I'll have to say that a SC car will pull up a hill where the boost counts, but on a flat surface my car is quicker simply b/c there is no boost lag and the transition is smoother into vtec which wont result into traction issues.

I'd say only cams would be necessary and a mild port job as the next stage and a larger t-body which all together may yield as high as 15whp or more depending on tuning. It's very do-able to get 300bhp out of this motor without serious internals.

As far as daily driving, this car is my trailer queen when I have track events, otherwise, nearby auto-x, it's driven on the street. The car doens't sound like a normal s2k, it's got a mean growl to it, recently witnessed by a few bimmer owners at an auto-x down in SD.

 

what the hell...im still amazed how u got that much power with jsut I/H/E and aem ems... ....i so gotta see a dyno chart...and can u send me ur tuner...lol...n e way..nice job....so basically lets break it down..

A GREAT TUNER MAKES IT ALL POSSIBLE...

N/A monster mods:
1) aem ems w/ wideband
2) 4.77 FD w/ comptech diff
3) toda/mugen/amuse/hytech header
4) nice ti exhaust w/ test pipe (of course 2.5 piping)
5) spoon/mugen/J's/ aem (i dont like aem that much)
6) ported head
7) new t-body
8) ported intake mani w/ hondata gasket
9) toda cams (spec a) if u dont touch the bottom end (not sure if u can go w/ spec b and keep the stock bottom end
10) maybe a spoon headgasket a lil more comp cant hurt

 

ardy, I know its off topic, so if you want you can just reply via PM, but how in the hell did you lose 400ibs on the car, I know the soft-top and all its components, exhaust, maybe a passenger seat, but was there anything else that was MAJOR? I wanna drop maybe a couple hundred pounds but dont want to completely ruin the car.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by preylude99 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">ardy, I know its off topic, so if you want you can just reply via PM, but how in the hell did you lose 400ibs on the car, I know the soft-top and all its components, exhaust, maybe a passenger seat, but was there anything else that was MAJOR? I wanna drop maybe a couple hundred pounds but dont want to completely ruin the car.</TD></TR></TABLE>

no worries man, ditching the soft top made the biggest difference. If you add things up, they make a difference too, upholstery, plastics here and there, seats, battery etc etc etc, even the ac compressor and condenser + lines.

 

like Vapor said above, cams arent a waste!!
Wow, I am also surprised to see your gain with your mods
For my ITR, I had Toda As, Toda headers, Toda cam gears, VAFC...etc etc etc... and I did spend a lot more money then if i went with FI, but I loved every min of it.
When I got the S2K, i was thinking about going FI and to see how that is, but more and more i think about it...I will have to go NA again.