Well, I know how much people hate these questions, but I need some advice... My goal is 210-220whp... Which cams would you guys suggest? Spec Bs or Cs from Toda...? Also, if I go with C's what other mods do I need to do to get to that goal, as well as run a safe setup with nice idle.. With Cs can I run on 91 octane? and with Bs can I hit 210 to 220whp?

Edit: (Sorry for all the questions again... But your expert imput would be great.)


[Modified by 1 FAST R, 1:22 AM 10/12/2001]

 

Spec C's & valvesprings/retainers, high-comp pistons, balanced bottom end, bigger injectors, custom ECU, fuel pressure riser, bigger intake, bigger TB, good quality header, straight pipe and a hell of a lot of tuning (and very deep pockets)

You will not be able to run the above on 91 due to the high compression pistons. Spec b/c's work best with high compression.

I don't think B's will get any higher than 200s.

 

You don't want anything but JUN 3's.

They are way cheaper than Spec C's and easier to tune.

210-220 wheel horsepower with a 1.8 liter is quite an accomplishment.

I would say all it takes is money, and I would be mostly right. There are so many things you need to buy to get 215 WHP or so in a Type-R motor.

Start with the head getting ported, bigger injectors, dome pistons, $1000 header, $700+ ECU+tuning equipment.

I would say your looking at an easy 6k. Thats if you already have a Type-R motor.

Jeff

 

Get the C's, if done right it'll make more power than B's and JUN 3's. I've seen 210hp with C's on a street driven B18C5 (Chad aka TodaSi) and I figure with more tuning 220hp is possible.

Get the C's, TODA valvesprings, cam gears, ti retainers, pistons, and a ported head. Team that engine up with a good header, injectors, the PowerFC (or Hondata) and once tuned you'll have your 220hp.

 

Since high compression is needed with the Spec C or the Jun 3 cams, I would like to know how much high compression would be needed. I also face the dilema that I can only buy 91 octane to drive my car everyday, but I want the high compression for the cams that will give me the most horsepower. Some have said that 12.2-12.3 is ok with 91 octane, would that be high enuff to be worth getting the Spec C's or the Jun 3 cams? What kind of compression are we looking at here to get good amount of hp from the C's & 3's? Please share thoughts & comments.

 

I am going to tell you, flat out. And this might upset some people. But its the truth.

People sometimes say...."those cams need compression to work"

The JUN 3 cams make the same power on a stock motor, as they do on a fully built motor. They are about 13-15 WHP more than Type-R cams.

When people say..."they need compression to work" I don't agree with that through experience.

Just my thoughts. Not trying to flame anyone or anything. Its my opinion only.

Jeff

 

Jeff
you always stick by those JUN cams
no matter what people say


[Modified by Hybrid ctr, 8:54 PM 10/12/2001]

 

Can I drop in the JUN 3's in my stock motor and get those gains? Keep in mind I have no mods whatsoever, stock header, exhaust, etc. The only thing I do have is a KN filter on the stock tube.

 

Hybrid.

yes, I do.
I stick by JUN cams.

The primary lobes on the JUN cams are almost identicle to Type-R cams...so when your daily driving...you can't even notice the car is highly modified.

Plus the lift on the JUN cams is so much smaller than the Toda C's and even B's are more on exhuast...

The JUN cams are cheaper, they are easier to tune, they idle perfect, they are a STREET daily driven cam, they don't require a ton of electronics to run good...

The only reason I can think of people not liking them is because they have not used them or had them tuned.

I will just tell you this....

Of all the B series motors running lower than 11.3.....

do you see any Toda cams in there? Cars that are running JUN 3's and these are companies that have unlimited budget. THey tried Toda, I was THERE. Watching. And the Toda's came out and the JUN's went in. and the HP went up.

I stand by the JUN cams. And having nothing against the Toda cams...theya re great cams...but they don't make as much power and run as smooth as the JUN.

I am not alone here...as stated above...the FASTEST B series guys run JUN 3's too..

People can say whatever they want about any cam company and it doesn't bother me. I am all for buying whatever you want. heck...I had all 3 sets of Toda Cams right here.

A's
B's
C's

I sold 2 sets of Toda cams...used that I was testing...B's and C's $1000 for BOTH SETS TOGETHER. And it was hard to sell them...everyone wants JUN.

Jeff

 

No offense Jeff, but this guy is running TODAs. http://www.todaracing.com/drag2.html
Granted they are not the A, B, or C variety, but they are TODA.


Jason

 

Like Jason said, this guy just ran a 10.7 wit TODA vtec killers making him the fastest B series power car. It's cool you like JUN cams, but it seems that everyone else has different results with JUN that you, maybe you should fill us in with your tuning secrets. I agree than JUN 3's make 3~4hp more than TODA B's at peak, but peak power isn't everything, it's the complete powerband that counts. I smoked a fully built up JUN B16A powered CRX by about a car lenght in my spec B powered ITR and my car must weigh 500lbs more than the CRX and he was running race gas.

The rumor I heard about your problem with TODA is they didn't want to give you free cams to test last year and in a post last year you said "I only help out companies that want to help me". I have that post if you'd like me to post it.

But this JUN vs TODA thing is like the old Ford vs Chevy. It's just preference and we should all just chill out and get along. If someone asks a tech question we should try to help him out and answer him . Just want to let you know that I've got no beef with you Jeff


[Modified by MugenDC2R, 7:42 PM 10/12/2001]

 

how much would custom cams cost to make
just curious

 

That's NUTT's!

 

Hey since cams are easy to come by, in addition to a header test we should have a cam test. Maybe JUN vs TODA.

One test could be just dropping each into a stock motor and the next test tuned.

Whatcha think?

 

Everyone else has different results with JUN? Who ?, I don't see many people running JUN here on this board.

To get the 210+ hp to the wheels you're gonna need compression (12:1, headwork, real good header SMS or Hitech, injectors, cam gears and at least a VAFC with a ROM tune on the ecu and then whatever cam you decide to use. THen you gotta spend time on the dyno.

Like Jeff said it won't be hard, it just takes money that's all!

 

you want 210hp huh? buy a B20z bottom end(built) ,port flow your head...stock cams , stock valve train........ for more info check out http://www.crvtec.com


[Modified by AllMoToR97ITR, 12:08 PM 10/13/2001]

 

stock b20z + stock b16a head = 175hp
stock jdm b20b + stock b18c head = I'll know in a few hours but it feels like a little over 180hp




[Modified by FUCATYPR, 6:44 PM 10/13/2001]

 

do some research, plus i did say built bottom end(thats including Higher CR), and port flow the cabeza. , i dont know its just a thought, thats the setup i will be doing in my car but with some more work , im shooting for 220whp




[Modified by AllMoToR97ITR, 12:48 PM 10/13/2001]

 

going with jeff on this one. All the tuners i talk to here in SoCal prefer the JUN's over TODA because of the design of the TODA's. both are great cams tho, imo


vtec killers is not an option