I was wondering about the ATS 4.9 and SRR 4.7 final drives for the B16 Hydro tranny. I have a 99 Si and was looking into these two products for my application. The car is a daily driver, but I have been recently getting into some weekend autoX action and really enjoying it. I have mild bolt ons now but I do have a set of Skunk2 Stage 2 cams that will be installed in the next few weeks and I have plans to swap the B16's bottom end out for a B18C1 bottom end with CTR pistons early next year hopefully. Which final drive will be more friendly on both the street for daily driving and on the track? Both? Neither? I don't plan on purchasing this right away but I do want to be well informed before I make a decision. Thanks for the input.

 

I would suggest you 4.7 if you are keeping it a daily as well. If you ever have to do a road trip, your going to be revving the **** out of that motor hour after hour at 4.9. It'll be bad enough at 4.7.

Just my personal preference.

 

Are you really autocrossing with this car? Won't cams and a final drive get you thrown into the super-get-your-***-handed-to-you class?

 

Cams dump you into the Modified class. As JeffS so eloquently put it, that's the "super-get-your-***-handed-to-you class". ROFL!

Cheers,
Sean

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by rapid_roy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Cams dump you into the Modified class. As JeffS so eloquently put it, that's the "super-get-your-***-handed-to-you class". ROFL!

Cheers,
Sean

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On a local basis you can do ok... around here B series engined civics are competitive against the WRX's, STI's, and other SM cars.

christian- who likes running in SM despite not having the "best" car for the class he runs in...

 

christian I was curious which car do you think would be the best for the class? also are you going to deland this sunday, from what I hear we will have a big class.

Also the 4.9 might be one of the best improvements that I have made for my autox car, but it doesn't see the street much anymore.

later
matt

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mgast &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">christian I was curious which car do you think would be the best for the class? also are you going to deland this sunday, from what I hear we will have a big class.

Also the 4.9 might be one of the best improvements that I have made for my autox car, but it doesn't see the street much anymore.

later
matt</TD></TR></TABLE>
Best car for the class or best Honda for the class? Best car for the class would probably be a supercharged M3 or possibly a very well prepped EVO (they're awfully new here in the states and will probably take a year or two to get seriously fast... hopefully). IMO, best Honda for the class would probably be a base model 88 Civic Hatch w/ a supercharged B18 or B20, clutch pack diff, full suspension, etc... it'd be light, have hella power, and be a seriously good handling car.

Yep, I'll be down in Deland on Sunday Have you had a chance to run the new wheel/tire combo yet?


Back on topic though... instead of changing the FD have you thought about just going to 13" wheels? that should change the effective FD down to somewhere around the equivalent of 15" wheels w/ a 4.7 FD. By using the 13's you can get the improved FD for autoX and not worry about any daily driving issues.



Modified by Xian at 11:17 AM 2/12/2004

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JeffS &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Are you really autocrossing with this car? Won't cams and a final drive get you thrown into the super-get-your-***-handed-to-you class?
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In response to the above, I have yet to put the cams in as was stated in the post. Right now it is basic bolt ons and I am just getting into the whole autocrossing thing. I only have a few weekends under my belt, but I am definitely interested in this type of racing.

However, since I do plan on keeping this thing streetable, I will probably go without the addition of a final drive and possibly look into a set of 13" wheels for track days. The cams are a different story as I would like to install those. And if that puts me into the "my *** handed to me" class then so be it.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Xian &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
On a local basis you can do ok... around here B series engined civics are competitive against the WRX's, STI's, and other SM cars. </TD></TR></TABLE>

a well setup civic will beat a sti/wrx/evo etc in SM. what you have to worry about are the supercharged m3's....

as far as final drive, i would choose the 4.9 over the 4.7. having had both, the 4.7 just sucks compared to the 4.9. with the 4.9, you can use 2nd much more effectively. there may only be a small difference in #'s, but in reality the 4.9 works much better. if you are going to be a pansy and bitch about rpm, get a gsr or ls 5th gear, and you'll be fine. just so you know, 80mph on your car stock is ~4500 rpm. if you upgrade to the 4.9, you will be revving ~5000 rpms at the same 80mph. if you install the 4.7, you will rev approx ~4800 rpm. to me, 200 rpm is worth it to go the 4.9. if you want gas mileage, get an insight......

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JeffS &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Are you really autocrossing with this car? Won't cams and a final drive get you thrown into the super-get-your-***-handed-to-you class?

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are you speaking from experience?

 

what class do you want to run in? It sounds like you're currently eligible for STS... do you want to make the jump to Mod or SP? If so, then cams, FD, 13" wheels with R rubber are probably a good idea.

Since you only have a few weekends experience, I'd suggest not installing the cams yet and just get some seat time to start with

 

Best car for street mod? I still vote for a 4AGZE motivated Starlet. Too bad you would have to add ballast to meet minimum weight!

On second though, a properly set up Corvair might do *very* well. It's one of the few mid/rear engine cars that qualify for street modified.

Scott

 

what's the final drive on a usdm itr tranny? how does that comare to the 4.7 and 4.9 final drives...thanks...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Xian &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Back on topic though... instead of changing the FD have you thought about just going to 13" wheels? that should change the effective FD down to somewhere around the equivalent of 15" wheels w/ a 4.7 FD. By using the 13's you can get the improved FD for autoX and not worry about any daily driving issues.

Modified by Xian at 11:17 AM 2/12/2004</TD></TR></TABLE>
Thats what I did for my daily driven '99 Si and It works grrrrrrreat! I also have a set of V700's on the stock 15"'s for the rain, but @ 11 Lb.'s a rim in the 13X7" I get the best of both worlds; light weight wheels and a better gear ratio with out throwing in a FD!

 

imho, if you are making any sort of hp, you will not want to run 13's.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Xian &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">do you want to make the jump to Mod or SP? If so, then cams</TD></TR></TABLE>

Non-stock Cams arent legal in SP.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Xian &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">what class do you want to run in? It sounds like you're currently eligible for STS... do you want to make the jump to Mod or SP? If so, then cams, FD, 13" wheels with R rubber are probably a good idea.

Since you only have a few weekends experience, I'd suggest not installing the cams yet and just get some seat time to start with </TD></TR></TABLE>

**** Whispering in the background **** Evolution school, Evolution school, Evolution school, ..........

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .RJ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Non-stock Cams arent legal in SP.</TD></TR></TABLE>
sorry, should have been clearer... I meant that the 13's would be good for SP and that FD and Cams would be good for SM. But that they won't be good if he wants to keep racing in STS (if that's where he is classed currently)

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Osokwik &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

**** Whispering in the background **** Evolution school, Evolution school, Evolution school, ..........

</TD></TR></TABLE>


sounds like a good idea to me!

 

evolution is worth every penny.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by rodney &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">imho, if you are making any sort of hp, you will not want to run 13's. </TD></TR></TABLE>

i say if you plan on running street mod in a honda, listen to this guy, he knows what he's talking about...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by rodney &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">imho, if you are making any sort of hp, you will not want to run 13's. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Rodney, I'm not sure that I see the reason behind this statement? What's the difference between running a stock 4.40 FD with 13's and running a 4.9 FD with 15's? The 4.9 w/ 15's would be geared slightly shorter than the 4.40 w/ 13's but is it that much of an issue?

FWIW, I've been very happy with my 4.40 FD and 13's. Then again I'm just running a B18C1 w/ bolt-ons so it's not like I'm making serious power either...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Xian &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Rodney, I'm not sure that I see the reason behind this statement? What's the difference between running a stock 4.40 FD with 13's and running a 4.9 FD with 15's? The 4.9 w/ 15's would be geared slightly shorter than the 4.40 w/ 13's but is it that much of an issue?
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Its a matter of over-working the tires.... or "Roasting" them. the 13's with a stock FD with decent power will generate alot more heat (usually good but in this case too much) in the tires. 15s with the shorter FD will allow you to make better use of the power.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Watkinsm3 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Its a matter of over-working the tires.... or "Roasting" them. the 13's with a stock FD with decent power will generate alot more heat (usually good but in this case too much) in the tires. 15s with the shorter FD will allow you to make better use of the power.
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And to add to this, it just plain puts more tire on the ground...

 

watkins and tunes, thanks for replying. i agree with them regarding the 15" & 4.9 vs. 13" question. oh and to answer the im's about which rack i am installing, i am using an integra rack, as currently there is no faster racks available for p/s cars.