i was think of going with the b16a block, but now i'm thinking of going with something big like b20 vtec. i wanna know what what i will need to rev it up to 9k. i was thinking maybe ib spec i beam rods some cp or ibspec wiseco pistons,acl bearings,type r oil pump, balanced and blueprinted,and vtec waterpump. will these sleeves be able to take this. i heard that the b20 sleeves are sorta weak. if they are then how about the ls block will it be able to take 9k with these upgrades. i just wanna have a motor that is reliable enough to take 9k rpm anytime i want to take it up there and still be daily driven. if the answer is no then i think i'll probably stick with the 1.6 or get a gsr block if i can find one for a decent price.
Thanks

 

I'd do a Sleeved LS block, 85 or 86mm sleeve job from GE......

Forged Pistons (wiseco or CP)
Forged Rods (pauter , oliver , eagle , crower)
Bearings (ACL)
complete rotational assembly balanced and blueprinted
ARP rod bolts
Endyn block girdle
AEBS head studs
EF-1 valvetrain with some EF-1 cams

Ohya, and someone who is good at tuning always helps.

 

first off, you should go to endyn's web site http://www.theoldone.com.

they have a complete b-20 build up from start to finish. the hp that they got will blow your ******* mind

 

as far as i know, an R/S ratio is the most important part of how high you can rev safely

and stroke being the more important of the two.

or you can try and copy the internal measurements of the s2000 engine.... that thing revs to 9000 grand.. and its stock.

also i would worry more about springs and retainers before pistons and rods, you dont want valve float now do you....

 

the b-20 sleeves are very solid they are just brittle. For example think of it like concrete.
If you have concrete just by it self it is very solid and hard but it can easily be fractured if it is flexed , but by adding rebar(steel skeleton) to the concrete you end up with a really hard object that is no longer going to break by flexing.

By posting the block (see endyn website for more detail) you reduce flexing of the sleeves, and they are strong enough to take the high RPM abuse.

these sleeves are all one piece instead of four independent sleeves like other b series
having the block posted utilizes the rigidity of the sleeves while keeping them snug in thier rightful place. this keeps them from flexing.
after posting the b-20 sleeves, they become the strongest factory b series sleeves, period.

these engines have **** *** rod stroke ratios, and therefore, they are not happy at high rpms
with stock parts. A long stroke means that at a given rpm the piston has to travel further from TDC to BDC (or vice versa) than a piston in a motor with a short stroke would have to travel. the weak link in this factor is the connection between the rod and the piston.
An after market piston and rod combo will make up for this and that aspect of the problem is erased.

 

7th gear is right the bottom end is only half of the equation your head will need some work before you can hit nine grand.

i dont want to sound rude or disagreeable but it would be hard to match to internal measurments to that of an s2k with this block.

b-20s are all stroke while s2k is all about the bore. but you are definatley right in the sense that you should shoot for a similar rod stroke ratio.

one good way is to use the crank from a b17
in the b20 block. the end result is a 1.8 liter with the rod stroke ratio similar to a b-16.
You loose 200 cc's but you get a rev happy motor.

what is more important to you:

200 cc's or bad *** r/s ratio?

it all depends on what you are shooting for.

if you want a road race car and will allways be high up in the rpms, then rod stroke ratio is your answer.

if you want a drag car that will only see high rpms a 1/4 mile at a time, then the extra 200 cc's will provide some necessary torque, which is kind of what going with a b-20 is all about.
this can still be very reliable. instead of relying on a great rod stroke ratio to keep your enternals from experiencing too much stress, you simply need to get after market parts that will reinforce it to the point that the crappy rod stroke ratio will not be your down fall

 

I drive a 94 civic with a b-20 and it is a **** load of fun.

i will always think that the b-16 is the best motor you can go with for a lot of reasons

(I can get more specific if you want)

but i also can not argue with the results that a 2.0 gives you.

i beat all kinds of cars that i did not think that i could beat. And i have not even done the vtec conversion yet.

to answer your question yes you can have a 9k rpm daily driven b-20 and it will ******* rule.

i am not the smartest by any means but i have put a lot of research into building my b-20 and i would be more than happy to share it with you.

 

you can get an LS block for usually a few hundred dollars less than a b20. but sleeves aren't cheap. golden eagle sleeves are like $800-$900

it is debatable whether or not you need crazy strong sleeves for a mild all motor build. but one thing is certain, and that is that crappy rod stroke ratio means more stress on cylinder walls. Ls and b-20 both have identical stroke but only b-20 comes with solid sleeves.

i could sleep at night knowing that my b-20 with posted stock sleeves will take the abuse, but anything other than aftermarket sleeves for an Ls would worry me. once you add the cost of sleeves to an Ls block, it seems to make more sense to me to get a b-20




Modified by Mr.E.G. at 5:46 AM 2/6/2004

 

I, can attest, I thought the B20 was a decent block. It isn't. Weakest sleeves out of the whole B-series range. Why? It shares sleeve between two cylinders, so its only using 1/2 a sleeve.

Flame?
Flame this:

 

B20 sleeves can be weak. but on the flip side they can be as strong as you need them to be. if you know they are already britle, help them help you and get a breather kit to reduce crankcase pressure (endyne $154 shipped). detnation is the #1 cause of cracked sleeeves. so i bought a msd knock alert.($151 and some change sipped from summit) i have been told by more than a few people block gaurds aren't worth ****. but the bottom line is yes b20 sleeves are britle but thee are things you can do to reduce the chances of them cracking. tuned is going to be your best protection.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mr.E.G. &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">first off, you should go to endyn's web site http://www.theoldone.com.

they have a complete b-20 build up from start to finish. the hp that they got will blow your ******* mind</TD></TR></TABLE>

gotta take everything that comes from them with a grain of salt...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ian &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

gotta take everything that comes from them with a grain of salt...</TD></TR></TABLE>

YUP!... The motor put out "300whp.." :ROLLSEYES: but never hit the streets.. whats the use of that?

 

theendyn motor blew becase they got greedy and revved the motor too high. the motor could have safely revved that high and made the power had the rod stretch issue been addressed. the write up clearly expresses that.

look man, this is obviuosly one of those things where people have opposing views.

just do the b16. it sounds like you alreaady have the motor and there is no mystery.
if in the end youre not happy , then look for more displacement. bottom line:

b-16 = made for high rpm

 

one of my friends had a b20 vtec with 12:1 endyn rollerwave pistons ,golden eagle manufacturing 85mm sleeved block
endyn/eagle connector rods. one of the rods stretched and he has to replace it . i don't know if that it common with b20s or not but that things pulled so hard. it was something like 210whp 156wtq that was untuned