Anyone has info about Kuhmo 712's vs Azenis?
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From: Cincinnati, OH
Anyone has info about Kuhmo 712's vs Azenis?
I have a 91 DA, that is a dailey driver that never will have to leave the city again. My goal is to get it to a few SCCA Solo events this year. I need tires really soon. I was all set to go with Azenis Sports, not having much fear of the winters around here. The trouble is I am having a tough time finding a local supplier that can get them at a price I am happy with. While doing all this looking two different tire stores have recommended the Kuhmo 712 VR. I had one guy even quote me $75 a tire, for the tire mounting and balancing, which seemed like a fair deal for what I am finding for pricing.
The trouble is I cant find much info on the 712's, if anyone has any first hand knowledge about how these tires would handle to be dailey driven and some lite track work, I would appreciate it.
Thanks
The trouble is I cant find much info on the 712's, if anyone has any first hand knowledge about how these tires would handle to be dailey driven and some lite track work, I would appreciate it.
Thanks
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Re: Anyone has info about Kuhmo 712's vs Azenis? (giff74)
I auto-x'd on 712's, and it was horrible. They were soft and looked aggressive, but they weren't. Their grip in turning as well as accelerating and decelerating absolutely sucked. With just a handful of auto-x events, a lapping day, a mountiain run, and normal street driving, I toasted them in 6 months. I'm much happier with my avid h4's. The grip better, last longer, and they're all seasons 
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From: Warren, RI, USA
Re: Anyone has info about Kuhmo 712's vs Azenis? (garados)
I have had my 712's for about a year now and are a grat tire for the money.
Garados is crazy if he thinks the Avid H4's are better from a performance standpoint, as I also run those as my winter tires. From an autox standpoint there is simply no comparison, the 712 is made for that, the H4 is not. The symptoms he described are all indicative of running the 712 on to low a tire pressure, I would be curious to know what it was.
Anyway, the Azenis is a stickier tire and much better suited to autox than the 712 is but you are talking a small margin. You would be lucky if you got 2 seconds if you were really skilled. For a beginner autox you would be better off on the 712 as it's much more forgiving, the Azenis has a really stiff sidewall and isn't going to be as forgiving.
You will get more miles out of a 712, and when it rains you would be much better off. In the dry I have a hard time keeping up with WRX's on the autox course that are running Azenis but when it is raining or cold, they are trying to keep up with me.
Cheers,
Sean
Garados is crazy if he thinks the Avid H4's are better from a performance standpoint, as I also run those as my winter tires. From an autox standpoint there is simply no comparison, the 712 is made for that, the H4 is not. The symptoms he described are all indicative of running the 712 on to low a tire pressure, I would be curious to know what it was.
Anyway, the Azenis is a stickier tire and much better suited to autox than the 712 is but you are talking a small margin. You would be lucky if you got 2 seconds if you were really skilled. For a beginner autox you would be better off on the 712 as it's much more forgiving, the Azenis has a really stiff sidewall and isn't going to be as forgiving.
You will get more miles out of a 712, and when it rains you would be much better off. In the dry I have a hard time keeping up with WRX's on the autox course that are running Azenis but when it is raining or cold, they are trying to keep up with me.
Cheers,
Sean
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Re: Anyone has info about Kuhmo 712's vs Azenis? (rapid_roy)
I ran my 712's at 35-40 psi, 215/40/16 on a 16x7 wheel. I switched to the avid's in a 205/40/16 @ 45 psi, and they're much more stable and predictable, IMO, than the 712's.
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From: Warren, RI, USA
Re: Anyone has info about Kuhmo 712's vs Azenis? (garados)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by garados »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I ran my 712's at 35-40 psi, 215/40/16 on a 16x7 wheel</TD></TR></TABLE>
Waaaay to low.
I chalked my tires and found that they were happiest at 48psi in the front, and 44-46 in the rear.
Cheers,
Sean
Waaaay to low.
I chalked my tires and found that they were happiest at 48psi in the front, and 44-46 in the rear.
Cheers,
Sean
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Re: Anyone has info about Kuhmo 712's vs Azenis? (jtintegra)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jtintegra »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">kuhmos suck
azenis beat them out by far only thing kuhmo has is a long life compared to the azenis, although they offer no handling what so ever</TD></TR></TABLE>
No, the 712's don't suck. Yes the Azenis has more grip but that's not the whole issue. Like heat. If an Azenis isn't up to temp, it's not nearly as sticky.
Like I said, switching to Azenis over Kumho's and you'll pick up 1-2 seconds on a 60 second course. That isn't a huge advantage and it's doesn't mean that the 712's "suck".
The likelihood that you can drive the Azenis to their full potential is also unlikely, so that extra grip that everyone raves about is all but unuseable. You will never use that tire to it's potential on the street either because the Azenis need to be hot to be sticky. You can pick up a second by switching to stickier tires, or you can cut 8 seconds by being a better driver.
And since I like to say this so much, I'll say it again "hardware is nothing, technique is everything".
Cheers,
Sean
azenis beat them out by far only thing kuhmo has is a long life compared to the azenis, although they offer no handling what so ever</TD></TR></TABLE>
No, the 712's don't suck. Yes the Azenis has more grip but that's not the whole issue. Like heat. If an Azenis isn't up to temp, it's not nearly as sticky.
Like I said, switching to Azenis over Kumho's and you'll pick up 1-2 seconds on a 60 second course. That isn't a huge advantage and it's doesn't mean that the 712's "suck".
The likelihood that you can drive the Azenis to their full potential is also unlikely, so that extra grip that everyone raves about is all but unuseable. You will never use that tire to it's potential on the street either because the Azenis need to be hot to be sticky. You can pick up a second by switching to stickier tires, or you can cut 8 seconds by being a better driver.
And since I like to say this so much, I'll say it again "hardware is nothing, technique is everything".
Cheers,
Sean
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Re: Anyone has info about Kuhmo 712's vs Azenis? (rapid_roy)
Excellent points Sean.
Agreed. The 712's, for the money, arent a bad tire. Ive had mine for ~30k without any problems aside from them being so ridiculously loud I dont remember what my motor sounds like inside the cabin. Dry grip is great, wet grip is great, snow/ice is completely undriveable (obviously).
If you daily drive your car, I dont see the point of Azenis'. You pay $300+ for tires, and they last 10 months? No thank you. If you frequently AutoX your car and weekend drive or something, sure Azenis' are great sticky tires for the money, and a good choice. But the treadwear makes them useless for a daily driven car IMO.
Agreed. The 712's, for the money, arent a bad tire. Ive had mine for ~30k without any problems aside from them being so ridiculously loud I dont remember what my motor sounds like inside the cabin. Dry grip is great, wet grip is great, snow/ice is completely undriveable (obviously).
If you daily drive your car, I dont see the point of Azenis'. You pay $300+ for tires, and they last 10 months? No thank you. If you frequently AutoX your car and weekend drive or something, sure Azenis' are great sticky tires for the money, and a good choice. But the treadwear makes them useless for a daily driven car IMO.
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Re: Anyone has info about Kuhmo 712's vs Azenis? (rapid_roy)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by rapid_roy »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I chalked my tires and found that they were happiest at 48psi in the front, and 44-46 in the rear.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Wow, learn something new everyday
Maybe I'll give those 712's another shot. And about your saying, "hardware is nothing, technique is everything," I totally agree. It was probably leaning how to drive on those 712's that showed me how to control the car with the h4's.
Wow, learn something new everyday
Maybe I'll give those 712's another shot. And about your saying, "hardware is nothing, technique is everything," I totally agree. It was probably leaning how to drive on those 712's that showed me how to control the car with the h4's.
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Re: Anyone has info about Kuhmo 712's vs Azenis? (newgsrdriver)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by newgsrdriver »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Excellent points Sean.
Agreed. The 712's, for the money, arent a bad tire. Ive had mine for ~30k without any problems aside from them being so ridiculously loud I dont remember what my motor sounds like inside the cabin. Dry grip is great, wet grip is great, snow/ice is completely undriveable (obviously).
If you daily drive your car, I dont see the point of Azenis'. You pay $300+ for tires, and they last 10 months? No thank you. If you frequently AutoX your car and weekend drive or something, sure Azenis' are great sticky tires for the money, and a good choice. But the treadwear makes them useless for a daily driven car IMO. </TD></TR></TABLE>
I appreciate all the info, but the above kind of summerizes what I am leaning towards. I have a car that is moving towards primarily race car, engine swap, suspension upgrade, about to strip interior, however I still have to drive it everyday for another year or so until I can pick up a third car, so right now I am really into bang for the buck for the next set of tires I get. It sounds like the 712's will give me enough performance to match my limited skills, will handle well enough on the street and in the rain, and last long enough for this car to make it to race only status.
Just wondering, where are you guys finding good prices and service on tires, anyplace other than tirerack.com?
Agreed. The 712's, for the money, arent a bad tire. Ive had mine for ~30k without any problems aside from them being so ridiculously loud I dont remember what my motor sounds like inside the cabin. Dry grip is great, wet grip is great, snow/ice is completely undriveable (obviously).
If you daily drive your car, I dont see the point of Azenis'. You pay $300+ for tires, and they last 10 months? No thank you. If you frequently AutoX your car and weekend drive or something, sure Azenis' are great sticky tires for the money, and a good choice. But the treadwear makes them useless for a daily driven car IMO. </TD></TR></TABLE>
I appreciate all the info, but the above kind of summerizes what I am leaning towards. I have a car that is moving towards primarily race car, engine swap, suspension upgrade, about to strip interior, however I still have to drive it everyday for another year or so until I can pick up a third car, so right now I am really into bang for the buck for the next set of tires I get. It sounds like the 712's will give me enough performance to match my limited skills, will handle well enough on the street and in the rain, and last long enough for this car to make it to race only status.
Just wondering, where are you guys finding good prices and service on tires, anyplace other than tirerack.com?
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Re: Anyone has info about Kuhmo 712's vs Azenis? (jtintegra)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jtintegra »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">kuhmos suck</TD></TR></TABLE>
I can vouch for every bit of this statement. The only thing mine were good at was huge burnouts.
I can vouch for every bit of this statement. The only thing mine were good at was huge burnouts.
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From: los angeles
well, they are both totally different tires. kuhmos are obviously better for street because, once the raining season comes, its the same as comparing both of them in dry season auto-x, the azenis suck, because the 712 have awesome wet weather traction. but once the dry season comes, the 712 sucks.
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Re: Anyone has info about Kuhmo 712's vs Azenis? (newgsrdriver)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by newgsrdriver »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Excellent points Sean.
Agreed. The 712's, for the money, arent a bad tire. Ive had mine for ~30k without any problems aside from them being so ridiculously loud I dont remember what my motor sounds like inside the cabin. Dry grip is great, wet grip is great, snow/ice is completely undriveable (obviously).
If you daily drive your car, I dont see the point of Azenis'. You pay $300+ for tires, and they last 10 months? No thank you. If you frequently AutoX your car and weekend drive or something, sure Azenis' are great sticky tires for the money, and a good choice. But the treadwear makes them useless for a daily driven car IMO.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
I've seen plenty of threads comparing these tires, as well as Yokohama 100's. In general I found most disliked the 712's but they are worth the "bang for your buck" but, I opted for the yokohama's. Ride is smooth, but tread is wearing somewhat fast, for me being a driver that doesn't drive to hard. I'm curious about the 712's and might try them next, except your statement about how loud they are...is it that bad? Also, I have winter tires so thats no problem up in ny.
Relating to the thread question...I've definately heard plenty of great comments about the Azenis, but when it comes down to it, it seems like its low tread life, higher quality compared to lower quality, higher tread life so take your pick what you'd rather have...
Agreed. The 712's, for the money, arent a bad tire. Ive had mine for ~30k without any problems aside from them being so ridiculously loud I dont remember what my motor sounds like inside the cabin. Dry grip is great, wet grip is great, snow/ice is completely undriveable (obviously).
If you daily drive your car, I dont see the point of Azenis'. You pay $300+ for tires, and they last 10 months? No thank you. If you frequently AutoX your car and weekend drive or something, sure Azenis' are great sticky tires for the money, and a good choice. But the treadwear makes them useless for a daily driven car IMO.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
I've seen plenty of threads comparing these tires, as well as Yokohama 100's. In general I found most disliked the 712's but they are worth the "bang for your buck" but, I opted for the yokohama's. Ride is smooth, but tread is wearing somewhat fast, for me being a driver that doesn't drive to hard. I'm curious about the 712's and might try them next, except your statement about how loud they are...is it that bad? Also, I have winter tires so thats no problem up in ny.
Relating to the thread question...I've definately heard plenty of great comments about the Azenis, but when it comes down to it, it seems like its low tread life, higher quality compared to lower quality, higher tread life so take your pick what you'd rather have...
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From: Hendersonville, NC
Re: Anyone has info about Kuhmo 712's vs Azenis? (sportyolds)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sportyolds »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I've seen plenty of threads comparing these tires, as well as Yokohama 100's. In general I found most disliked the 712's but they are worth the "bang for your buck" but, I opted for the yokohama's. Ride is smooth, but tread is wearing somewhat fast, for me being a driver that doesn't drive to hard. I'm curious about the 712's and might try them next, except your statement about how loud they are...is it that bad? Also, I have winter tires so thats no problem up in ny.
Relating to the thread question...I've definately heard plenty of great comments about the Azenis, but when it comes down to it, it seems like its low tread life, higher quality compared to lower quality, higher tread life so take your pick what you'd rather have...</TD></TR></TABLE>
My Yokohama's were better in every aspect of performance than my Kumho's were. I'd highly recommend considering them over the Kumho's when making a tire decision.
Relating to the thread question...I've definately heard plenty of great comments about the Azenis, but when it comes down to it, it seems like its low tread life, higher quality compared to lower quality, higher tread life so take your pick what you'd rather have...</TD></TR></TABLE>
My Yokohama's were better in every aspect of performance than my Kumho's were. I'd highly recommend considering them over the Kumho's when making a tire decision.
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From: Sumner WA
Re: Anyone has info about Kuhmo 712's vs Azenis? (99SiRacer)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 99SiRacer »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">oh my god...the kumho ecsta supra 712's SUCK DICK!!!! I have em on my Si!! They suck!!!! NEVER BUY THESE TIRES! </TD></TR></TABLE>
yes indeed. I kinda miss my toyo FZ4's...
yes indeed. I kinda miss my toyo FZ4's...
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From: Mrs. Sauga, Ontario, Canada
Re: Anyone has info about Kuhmo 712's vs Azenis? (giff74)
They really don't compare to each other, just look at the tread. Azenis sports big assed blocks, Khumo 712's thin blocks.
Sick with the Azenis, a proven tire for the track at low price. Defintely would suggest mailordering the tire if you can't get it locally. Can't help you with mailorder shops but I'm sure other people can.
Sick with the Azenis, a proven tire for the track at low price. Defintely would suggest mailordering the tire if you can't get it locally. Can't help you with mailorder shops but I'm sure other people can.
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Re: Anyone has info about Kuhmo 712's vs Azenis? (b20_EK)
Jesus, if you miss your FZ4's that really tells us how valued your opinon is! 
FZ4s are awful....read:useless in wet weather. Sure, Azenis offers good dry grip, but for someone who drives 12k a year in all sorts of weather, what does that mean to me? It means it isnt the right tire for me. There isnt one right tire, just like there isnt one right setup for anything.....it all depends on the driver and the conditions. I would take tons of tires over Azenis', since Id prefer to not spend $350/yr on tires I can only drive on sunny days no matter how good they are. Again, Ive driven my 712s for 30k in sun, rain, sleet, blizzards, ice...everything. I havent felt uncomfortable with them once in the wet or the dry. In the snow/ice, they are a complete liability, and should not be used...period.
The noise, IMO, is awful. Loud enough that I wont be buying them again. This seems to be common for 712's with a good amount of mileage on them.
FZ4s are awful....read:useless in wet weather. Sure, Azenis offers good dry grip, but for someone who drives 12k a year in all sorts of weather, what does that mean to me? It means it isnt the right tire for me. There isnt one right tire, just like there isnt one right setup for anything.....it all depends on the driver and the conditions. I would take tons of tires over Azenis', since Id prefer to not spend $350/yr on tires I can only drive on sunny days no matter how good they are. Again, Ive driven my 712s for 30k in sun, rain, sleet, blizzards, ice...everything. I havent felt uncomfortable with them once in the wet or the dry. In the snow/ice, they are a complete liability, and should not be used...period.
The noise, IMO, is awful. Loud enough that I wont be buying them again. This seems to be common for 712's with a good amount of mileage on them.
