vtec vs non-vtec
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From: Kansas City, MO, USA
vtec vs non-vtec
i'm writing a research paper and i chose the topic of trying to prove that non-vtec applications will work better for quicker hondas with a stronger cam and can still be street drivable. anyone who could point me in the right direction of what to look for either in libraries or the web, i would be grateful. thanks
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From: assville, MI, USA
Re: vtec vs non-vtec (92b16aTurbo)
This could be tough to prove, depending on how far you take it. Since you are looking at street drivable.
If you want to just compair a non-vtec engine to a stock vtec engine, it won't be to difficult.
Look at http://www.crower.com, they have a list of the stock cams and the aftermarket b-series cam. You can easily show the 404 (which is street drivable) is more aggressive than the stock GSR cams.
Then look at the reference guide at http://www.hondaswap.com and look up the displacement for the B18B vs the B18C1. The B18B is sligthly larger due to the rod stroke. This also results in different cylinder filling properties due to the piston dwell times. The result is a beefier midrange (with some sacrifice for high end filling and revability)
If you want to just compair a non-vtec engine to a stock vtec engine, it won't be to difficult.
Look at http://www.crower.com, they have a list of the stock cams and the aftermarket b-series cam. You can easily show the 404 (which is street drivable) is more aggressive than the stock GSR cams.
Then look at the reference guide at http://www.hondaswap.com and look up the displacement for the B18B vs the B18C1. The B18B is sligthly larger due to the rod stroke. This also results in different cylinder filling properties due to the piston dwell times. The result is a beefier midrange (with some sacrifice for high end filling and revability)
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Re: vtec vs non-vtec (sophisticated)
I don't see why it would be better. I can see it performing the same.
The overlap of the stock vtec cams are not optimal for boost, but that can be dialed out.
The overlap of the stock vtec cams are not optimal for boost, but that can be dialed out.
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From: Orange County
VTEC loves turbochargers. I can't see a better way to make use of forced induction.
On identically turbocharged motors, one being VTEC-equipped, and the other sans VTEC, the motor with VTEC will make more power.
On identically turbocharged motors, one being VTEC-equipped, and the other sans VTEC, the motor with VTEC will make more power.
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Re: (dom93hatch)
I can't agree at all.
This is where people get confused. Somehow the technology of VTEC got mixed in with the other aspects of a quality engine.
All vtec is, on hondas, is a low cam profile, and a high cam profile.
You stick a cam with the same specs as the VTEC cam into a non-vtec engine, (all other things equal, ie: compression, head flow, etc) the performance will be at the same level. There may be some slight differences due to the cylinder filling, but it won't be huge.
All vtec does is allow you to run an aggressive cam with out having to worry about idle. It just makes engines more streetable. Everything else about the vtec engines is not *part* of vtec. It is JUST how honda designed those engines. Rod/stroke is not part of vtec, block girdle is not part of vtec, the head quality is not a part of vtec. You could have the exact same engine, minus vtec, and it wouldn't have any less peak HP. (in fact, it might even have slightly more due to the less rotational mass on the cams).
This is where people get confused. Somehow the technology of VTEC got mixed in with the other aspects of a quality engine.
All vtec is, on hondas, is a low cam profile, and a high cam profile.
You stick a cam with the same specs as the VTEC cam into a non-vtec engine, (all other things equal, ie: compression, head flow, etc) the performance will be at the same level. There may be some slight differences due to the cylinder filling, but it won't be huge.
All vtec does is allow you to run an aggressive cam with out having to worry about idle. It just makes engines more streetable. Everything else about the vtec engines is not *part* of vtec. It is JUST how honda designed those engines. Rod/stroke is not part of vtec, block girdle is not part of vtec, the head quality is not a part of vtec. You could have the exact same engine, minus vtec, and it wouldn't have any less peak HP. (in fact, it might even have slightly more due to the less rotational mass on the cams).
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From: Hendersonville, NC
Re: (StyleTEG)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by StyleTEG »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I can't agree at all.
This is where people get confused. Somehow the technology of VTEC got mixed in with the other aspects of a quality engine.
All vtec is, on hondas, is a low cam profile, and a high cam profile.
You stick a cam with the same specs as the VTEC cam into a non-vtec engine, (all other things equal, ie: compression, head flow, etc) the performance will be at the same level. There may be some slight differences due to the cylinder filling, but it won't be huge.
All vtec does is allow you to run an aggressive cam with out having to worry about idle. It just makes engines more streetable. Everything else about the vtec engines is not *part* of vtec. It is JUST how honda designed those engines. Rod/stroke is not part of vtec, block girdle is not part of vtec, the head quality is not a part of vtec. You could have the exact same engine, minus vtec, and it wouldn't have any less peak HP. (in fact, it might even have slightly more due to the less rotational mass on the cams).</TD></TR></TABLE>
I agree completely with this. But I don't agree that it would be better to build a streetable non-vtec over a vtec due to the cam profiling. A highly agressive non-vtec cam will mean idle quality and low rpm drivability will suffer. A vtec cam can be as crazy as you want on the mid lobe, and still retain stock idle and low rpm drivability. Or you can use an outer lobe profile designed to maximize torque at low rpm's and a mid lobe designed to maximize high rpm power and have an extremely versatile engine. The only real benefit I can see to using a non-vtec engine is it doesn't suffer the slight loss in oil pressure that a vtec solenoid causes.
This is where people get confused. Somehow the technology of VTEC got mixed in with the other aspects of a quality engine.
All vtec is, on hondas, is a low cam profile, and a high cam profile.
You stick a cam with the same specs as the VTEC cam into a non-vtec engine, (all other things equal, ie: compression, head flow, etc) the performance will be at the same level. There may be some slight differences due to the cylinder filling, but it won't be huge.
All vtec does is allow you to run an aggressive cam with out having to worry about idle. It just makes engines more streetable. Everything else about the vtec engines is not *part* of vtec. It is JUST how honda designed those engines. Rod/stroke is not part of vtec, block girdle is not part of vtec, the head quality is not a part of vtec. You could have the exact same engine, minus vtec, and it wouldn't have any less peak HP. (in fact, it might even have slightly more due to the less rotational mass on the cams).</TD></TR></TABLE>
I agree completely with this. But I don't agree that it would be better to build a streetable non-vtec over a vtec due to the cam profiling. A highly agressive non-vtec cam will mean idle quality and low rpm drivability will suffer. A vtec cam can be as crazy as you want on the mid lobe, and still retain stock idle and low rpm drivability. Or you can use an outer lobe profile designed to maximize torque at low rpm's and a mid lobe designed to maximize high rpm power and have an extremely versatile engine. The only real benefit I can see to using a non-vtec engine is it doesn't suffer the slight loss in oil pressure that a vtec solenoid causes.
Joined: Nov 2003
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From: ca, USA
Re: (StyleTEG)
I also agree, this research paper should be isnt gonna be a very good. The drivability is always gonna be better with a vtec engine, thats the whole point of vtec. If there is a big cam in a non-vtec engine the low end would suck where as the low end on vtec is all good even with aftermarket cams, so the vtec would be the quicker one in that situation too. There are a lot more arguments that support vtec over non-vtec so good luck. 
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From: assville, MI, USA
Re: (boostn420)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
If there is a big cam in a non-vtec engine the low end would suck where as the low end on vtec is all good even with aftermarket cams, so the vtec would be the quicker one in that situation too
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Eh, nope. In a racing situation you should never fall out of your powerband. If you do you either need to fix your gearing or launch higher.
Even with a stock internal B18B I launch at 5,500 rpm
That is plenty high for any big cam in a non-vtec engine.
If there is a big cam in a non-vtec engine the low end would suck where as the low end on vtec is all good even with aftermarket cams, so the vtec would be the quicker one in that situation too
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Eh, nope. In a racing situation you should never fall out of your powerband. If you do you either need to fix your gearing or launch higher.
Even with a stock internal B18B I launch at 5,500 rpm
That is plenty high for any big cam in a non-vtec engine.
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From: assville, MI, USA
Re: (StyleTEG)
in general the vtec motor in this case a b18c1 is a better platform. it has higher compression, built stronger, has oil squirters ot keep piston temps lower.
in order to get the same results from a b18b you would need new cams, prot and polish, and higher conmpression pistons. so i don't see why people say it a cost thing. full b18b is $500, good P&P is about $800+, pistons are around $450, new cams are $400so your spending all that time and money on a b18b to get the same results as you could get with a stock b18c1. doesn't make sense to me, but oh well
in order to get the same results from a b18b you would need new cams, prot and polish, and higher conmpression pistons. so i don't see why people say it a cost thing. full b18b is $500, good P&P is about $800+, pistons are around $450, new cams are $400so your spending all that time and money on a b18b to get the same results as you could get with a stock b18c1. doesn't make sense to me, but oh well
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From: assville, MI, USA
Re: (Katman)
I think it should be rated on how people somehow think VTEC is much more than it is. 
You can build an engine from scratch just as good or better than any of hondas vtec engines, with out vtec, and make just as much power in the powerband. The only difference would be the idlability.
You can build an engine from scratch just as good or better than any of hondas vtec engines, with out vtec, and make just as much power in the powerband. The only difference would be the idlability.
Re: vtec vs non-vtec (StyleTEG)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by StyleTEG »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">This could be tough to prove, depending on how far you take it. Since you are looking at street drivable.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
</TD></TR></TABLE>
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From: PASADENA, CA, USA
Re: (StyleTEG)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by StyleTEG »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I think it should be rated on how people somehow think VTEC is much more than it is.
You can build an engine from scratch just as good or better than any of hondas vtec engines, with out vtec, and make just as much power in the powerband. The only difference would be the idlability.</TD></TR></TABLE>
true.
But (in terms of B-series engines) there are things a non-vtec engine fall short of which a VTEC engine surpasses ie - the oil lubing system - (oil spraybars over camshafts, spray jets for pistons, better oil pump). The lubing system is a big step up from non-vtec engines, a lot of peeps forget this aspect of a VTEC engine besides the smooth powerband vtec crossover and idle, better flowing head, etc. The ecu programming department is another aspect where VTEC engines can benefit from more than a non-vtec engine.
I personally think VTEC isn't overrated. It is pumped up quite a bit in the import industry, no doubt. But when you put the media BS aside and get down to the technical nitty grittty of how VTEC works n' all that, its very interesting how the system works, and how other car manufactureres are following in the steps of Honda's VTEC system, in their own ways.
non-vtec motors have a fighting chance...........in the afterlife
You can build an engine from scratch just as good or better than any of hondas vtec engines, with out vtec, and make just as much power in the powerband. The only difference would be the idlability.</TD></TR></TABLE>
true.
But (in terms of B-series engines) there are things a non-vtec engine fall short of which a VTEC engine surpasses ie - the oil lubing system - (oil spraybars over camshafts, spray jets for pistons, better oil pump). The lubing system is a big step up from non-vtec engines, a lot of peeps forget this aspect of a VTEC engine besides the smooth powerband vtec crossover and idle, better flowing head, etc. The ecu programming department is another aspect where VTEC engines can benefit from more than a non-vtec engine.
I personally think VTEC isn't overrated. It is pumped up quite a bit in the import industry, no doubt. But when you put the media BS aside and get down to the technical nitty grittty of how VTEC works n' all that, its very interesting how the system works, and how other car manufactureres are following in the steps of Honda's VTEC system, in their own ways.
non-vtec motors have a fighting chance...........in the afterlife
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From: assville, MI, USA
Re: (Katman)
See everything you described, as I stated earlier has nothing to do with vtec and everything to do with honda designing the motors to handle the high rpm redline.
Yes, the oil spraybars over the camshafts are nice, but they are not absolutely necessary. The spray jets for the pistons do help in cooling, but once you get forged pistons its less of an issue. The oil pump can easy be swapped out. The head can be ported/polished/modified. The ecu can be retuned.
Out of the box, the vtec engines are designed better than the non-vtecs. But that has little to do with vtec itself, which is just low rpm cam lobes for idling. Built right, a non-vtec engine can be just as competitive as a build vtec engine. Just with a non-vtec motor you are starting from a few steps behind.
Yes, the oil spraybars over the camshafts are nice, but they are not absolutely necessary. The spray jets for the pistons do help in cooling, but once you get forged pistons its less of an issue. The oil pump can easy be swapped out. The head can be ported/polished/modified. The ecu can be retuned.
Out of the box, the vtec engines are designed better than the non-vtecs. But that has little to do with vtec itself, which is just low rpm cam lobes for idling. Built right, a non-vtec engine can be just as competitive as a build vtec engine. Just with a non-vtec motor you are starting from a few steps behind.
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From: PASADENA, CA, USA
Re: (StyleTEG)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by StyleTEG »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">See everything you described, as I stated earlier has nothing to do with vtec and everything to do with honda designing the motors to handle the high rpm redline.
Yes, the oil spraybars over the camshafts are nice, but they are not absolutely necessary. The spray jets for the pistons do help in cooling, but once you get forged pistons its less of an issue. The oil pump can easy be swapped out. The head can be ported/polished/modified. The ecu can be retuned.
Out of the box, the vtec engines are designed better than the non-vtecs. But that has little to do with vtec itself, which is just low rpm cam lobes for idling. Built right, a non-vtec engine can be just as competitive as a build vtec engine. Just with a non-vtec motor you are starting from a few steps behind.</TD></TR></TABLE>
You're pretty headstrong for non-vtec engines and I guess in your scene you come up on non-vtec parts cheaper than VTEC parts.
I understand your view and where you're coming from, and yes, without the past of non-vtec engines, VTEC would not exist today. VTEC is an advancement of non-vtec engines. Though, I think we're almost seeing on the same level but not quite.
I'm focusing on how a vtec motor & non-vtec motor, as a whole, slightly differ from each other and why one is better than the other, because of the advancements in engine technology. Not just how VTEC alone operates.
this statement of yours is a bit contradictive imo:
"Out of the box, the vtec engines are designed better than the non-vtecs. But that has little to do with vtec itself, which is just low rpm cam lobes for idling."
LOL...
VTEC engines being designed better outta the box, is a damn good reason that it has EVERYTHING to do with VTEC. The whole VTEC system alone wasn't just designed for low to high cam changes and a bitchin idle. The rest of the motor was enhanced as well to take advantage of the VTEC system. The head was redesigned to hold the working vtec mechanisms, the new cam design, etc. The head flows better than a non-vtec head. The lubing system was way enhance to keep everything lubed well for high-rpm's. The whole motor was basically redesigned all because of VTEC, and to keep the motor's reliability factor up to par. Reliability is what Honda is all about, right?
As far as the battlefield goes between non-vtec & vtec engines, yes, non-vtec motors do have a fighting chance (lol) against VTEC motors, but a VTEC engine is a step ahead of the game just because its superior design right outta the box - just like you say. And outta the box Honda made a VTEC engine with high performance in mind, that is able to make power all the way to a 8000+rpm redline and safely get to that point, thanks to the better lubing system, the treated crankshaft, cam profile, etc. Does a non-vtec engine have these type of performance enhancments? no. All the factors are pretty obvious of how & why a VTEC motor IS better than a non-vtec engine. Its simply designed better and will always be a step ahead of a non-vtec engine, even if you simultaniously upgrade either engine types to the same level....the vtec motor will prevail and last longer.
I think that Mr. sophisticated would need to be more detailed in his question asking on: 'proving that non-vtec applications will work better for quicker hondas with a stronger cam and can still be street drivable' to prevent confusion between tech-heads. I mean, doesn't his question sound a little too broad?
Yes, the oil spraybars over the camshafts are nice, but they are not absolutely necessary. The spray jets for the pistons do help in cooling, but once you get forged pistons its less of an issue. The oil pump can easy be swapped out. The head can be ported/polished/modified. The ecu can be retuned.
Out of the box, the vtec engines are designed better than the non-vtecs. But that has little to do with vtec itself, which is just low rpm cam lobes for idling. Built right, a non-vtec engine can be just as competitive as a build vtec engine. Just with a non-vtec motor you are starting from a few steps behind.</TD></TR></TABLE>
You're pretty headstrong for non-vtec engines and I guess in your scene you come up on non-vtec parts cheaper than VTEC parts.
I understand your view and where you're coming from, and yes, without the past of non-vtec engines, VTEC would not exist today. VTEC is an advancement of non-vtec engines. Though, I think we're almost seeing on the same level but not quite.
I'm focusing on how a vtec motor & non-vtec motor, as a whole, slightly differ from each other and why one is better than the other, because of the advancements in engine technology. Not just how VTEC alone operates.
this statement of yours is a bit contradictive imo:
"Out of the box, the vtec engines are designed better than the non-vtecs. But that has little to do with vtec itself, which is just low rpm cam lobes for idling."
LOL...
VTEC engines being designed better outta the box, is a damn good reason that it has EVERYTHING to do with VTEC. The whole VTEC system alone wasn't just designed for low to high cam changes and a bitchin idle. The rest of the motor was enhanced as well to take advantage of the VTEC system. The head was redesigned to hold the working vtec mechanisms, the new cam design, etc. The head flows better than a non-vtec head. The lubing system was way enhance to keep everything lubed well for high-rpm's. The whole motor was basically redesigned all because of VTEC, and to keep the motor's reliability factor up to par. Reliability is what Honda is all about, right?
As far as the battlefield goes between non-vtec & vtec engines, yes, non-vtec motors do have a fighting chance (lol) against VTEC motors, but a VTEC engine is a step ahead of the game just because its superior design right outta the box - just like you say. And outta the box Honda made a VTEC engine with high performance in mind, that is able to make power all the way to a 8000+rpm redline and safely get to that point, thanks to the better lubing system, the treated crankshaft, cam profile, etc. Does a non-vtec engine have these type of performance enhancments? no. All the factors are pretty obvious of how & why a VTEC motor IS better than a non-vtec engine. Its simply designed better and will always be a step ahead of a non-vtec engine, even if you simultaniously upgrade either engine types to the same level....the vtec motor will prevail and last longer.
I think that Mr. sophisticated would need to be more detailed in his question asking on: 'proving that non-vtec applications will work better for quicker hondas with a stronger cam and can still be street drivable' to prevent confusion between tech-heads. I mean, doesn't his question sound a little too broad?
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From: assville, MI, USA
Re: (Katman)
We are arguing two completely different sides here, and I think you fail to see my point.
The engines were built around the aggressive cam lobes, not around vtec itself. Vtec is simply what it is, two cam profiles instead of one. This allowed Honda to produce production cars with high rpm power-bands with out having to worry about the idle.
Had Honda created the same engine minus vtec, it would perform the same. And this is my point.
People have this large misconception that vtec is some amazing power god device, when in reality it is not. The great power gains is simply the aggressive cam lobes, and the engine built around the high rpm aggressive cam lobes that produce the power. The lower lobes just make it street-able.
Yes, the engines with vtec technology are built better out of the box. I don't think anyone is going to dispute that. But I am disputing that vtec is the reason great power is made. VTEC is the reason great idle is had.
I bring this up all the time, and its the toda vtec killer cams. At some level of performance seriousness, there is no need for vtec. During a race you should never fall out of vtec, so why even bother with the extra weight?
Yes, the engines running vtec have better flowing heads, stronger internals, a better high reving R/S ratio, better lubrication system... but its not because of the ability to change cam profiles. It is because of the aggressive cam profile and the cam profiles need for improvements over the non-vtec design.
The engines were built around the aggressive cam lobes, not around vtec itself. Vtec is simply what it is, two cam profiles instead of one. This allowed Honda to produce production cars with high rpm power-bands with out having to worry about the idle.
Had Honda created the same engine minus vtec, it would perform the same. And this is my point.
People have this large misconception that vtec is some amazing power god device, when in reality it is not. The great power gains is simply the aggressive cam lobes, and the engine built around the high rpm aggressive cam lobes that produce the power. The lower lobes just make it street-able.
Yes, the engines with vtec technology are built better out of the box. I don't think anyone is going to dispute that. But I am disputing that vtec is the reason great power is made. VTEC is the reason great idle is had.
I bring this up all the time, and its the toda vtec killer cams. At some level of performance seriousness, there is no need for vtec. During a race you should never fall out of vtec, so why even bother with the extra weight?
Yes, the engines running vtec have better flowing heads, stronger internals, a better high reving R/S ratio, better lubrication system... but its not because of the ability to change cam profiles. It is because of the aggressive cam profile and the cam profiles need for improvements over the non-vtec design.
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From: burnin in AZ, usa
Re: (StyleTEG)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by StyleTEG »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Had Honda created the same engine minus vtec, it would perform the same. And this is my point. </TD></TR></TABLE>
yes BUT the idle would suffer therefor not making it a great daily motor.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by StyleTEG »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Yes, the engines with vtec technology are built better out of the box. I don't think anyone is going to dispute that. But I am disputing that vtec is the reason great power is made. VTEC is the reason great idle is had. </TD></TR></TABLE>
exactly, performance when you need(or want) it, but still retains the same idle and drivability as a non-vtec motor.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by StyleTEG »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I bring this up all the time, and its the toda vtec killer cams. At some level of performance seriousness, there is no need for vtec. During a race you should never fall out of vtec, so why even bother with the extra weight? </TD></TR></TABLE>
for the drive home
. but in all seriousnes, most of us arent building these cars for striclty race aplications. most of us have to drive the car home after speniding the day at the track. thats where the system prevails. no you should never drop out of your power band while racing, but we dont race all the time.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by StyleTEG »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Yes, the engines running vtec have better flowing heads, stronger internals, a better high reving R/S ratio, better lubrication system... but its not because of the ability to change cam profiles. It is because of the aggressive cam profile and the cam profiles need for improvements over the non-vtec design. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Great point, vtec isnt the reason the motors where built better, its the power band of the more agressive lobe, and the need that honda felt that the motor should still retain its honda "reliability". thats the only reason the motor where different.
sure they could have put the vtec system in the same non vtec motor, but would it been as reliable? no, so in turn honda wanted to add vtec to its motors, Knowing that the system would require a stronger motor to be just as reliable. so honda redesigned the motor for the vtec system, and the more agressive cam profile.
this is just my take on the whole thing. im not taking sides, and the vtec vs non vtec thing has been done. but if a honda wasnt reliable they wouldnt be where they are today.
yes BUT the idle would suffer therefor not making it a great daily motor.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by StyleTEG »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Yes, the engines with vtec technology are built better out of the box. I don't think anyone is going to dispute that. But I am disputing that vtec is the reason great power is made. VTEC is the reason great idle is had. </TD></TR></TABLE>
exactly, performance when you need(or want) it, but still retains the same idle and drivability as a non-vtec motor.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by StyleTEG »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I bring this up all the time, and its the toda vtec killer cams. At some level of performance seriousness, there is no need for vtec. During a race you should never fall out of vtec, so why even bother with the extra weight? </TD></TR></TABLE>
for the drive home
. but in all seriousnes, most of us arent building these cars for striclty race aplications. most of us have to drive the car home after speniding the day at the track. thats where the system prevails. no you should never drop out of your power band while racing, but we dont race all the time. <TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by StyleTEG »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Yes, the engines running vtec have better flowing heads, stronger internals, a better high reving R/S ratio, better lubrication system... but its not because of the ability to change cam profiles. It is because of the aggressive cam profile and the cam profiles need for improvements over the non-vtec design. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Great point, vtec isnt the reason the motors where built better, its the power band of the more agressive lobe, and the need that honda felt that the motor should still retain its honda "reliability". thats the only reason the motor where different.
sure they could have put the vtec system in the same non vtec motor, but would it been as reliable? no, so in turn honda wanted to add vtec to its motors, Knowing that the system would require a stronger motor to be just as reliable. so honda redesigned the motor for the vtec system, and the more agressive cam profile.
this is just my take on the whole thing. im not taking sides, and the vtec vs non vtec thing has been done. but if a honda wasnt reliable they wouldnt be where they are today.
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From: Greetings From Asbury Park,, NJ
Re: vtec vs non-vtec (sophisticated)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sophisticated »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i'm writing a research paper and i chose the topic of trying to prove that non-vtec applications will work better for quicker hondas with a stronger cam and can still be street drivable. anyone who could point me in the right direction of what to look for either in libraries or the web, i would be grateful. thanks</TD></TR></TABLE>
Sorta seems like an "apples and oranges" argument.
I would bet that you're definition of "street drivable" would be different than hondas.
Or someone else's.
Basically from all I've read, Honda's goal with VTEC was to make a small displacement fuel effcient, reliable, high-revving engine. MORE powerful in the least complicated way it could.
Sorta the mind-set that concieved "CVCC" technology applied in a novel way.
Honda sorta accomplised the impossible by making a small displacement high revving engine behave as if it's displacement was enlagred or as if it were turbochaged without having to resort to either. A very novel idea.
And, it was executed perfectly.
Sorta seems like an "apples and oranges" argument.
I would bet that you're definition of "street drivable" would be different than hondas.
Or someone else's.
Basically from all I've read, Honda's goal with VTEC was to make a small displacement fuel effcient, reliable, high-revving engine. MORE powerful in the least complicated way it could.
Sorta the mind-set that concieved "CVCC" technology applied in a novel way.
Honda sorta accomplised the impossible by making a small displacement high revving engine behave as if it's displacement was enlagred or as if it were turbochaged without having to resort to either. A very novel idea.
And, it was executed perfectly.