Okay, lets say I want to be diffrent and not swap in an H22, and not do the "fast and furious approach" with what they call N.O.S or turbo charging. What kind of horsepower perks can I get with a rebuilt f22b. I am talking all motor bliss with out a swap. I don't know to much about power adders yet, so what about compression, cams, port and polishing? Just any details on how to build my f22b and lighten my 96 ex to give an SI and basic Crapstang a run for its money? It's just, I know my motor, I don't want to get stuck with a shitty H22 I have to keep getting fixed. Just want to see what some cost might be, I am weigh my options, thats what u guys are for. Thanks

 

Not a fan of nitrous, but I like the TC. what is your budget?

 

Do you have a jdm f22b motor or is it just a f22b1 from 94-97 EX's?

 

i know there are few people around here who will say otherwise, but honestly a all motor F22 is seriuosly not worth. the hp/per dollar ratio is not in your favor. i would much rather go with boost on the F series and besides the sound of the BOV is cool.

fast and furious is using naaaws till your motor blows while you have some ridiculous looking car. a nice turbo on an F series is actually pretty damn smart providing your motor and tranny are in good shape since they can make more power for less money than an H22 swap.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by KGAccord &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i know there are few people around here who will say otherwise, but honestly a all motor F22 is seriuosly not worth. the hp/per dollar ratio is not in your favor. i would much rather go with boost on the F series and besides the sound of the BOV is cool.

fast and furious is using naaaws till your motor blows while you have some ridiculous looking car. a nice turbo on an F series is actually pretty damn smart providing your motor and tranny are in good shape since they can make more power for less money than an H22 swap.</TD></TR></TABLE>

and how would you know, H22 boy? You never went any further than Bolt ons with your F22B1/2...How would you know the potential of the F22? Might be a bit of a rude way to make my point... but it's still a very valid point as are my next couple...

It seems to me that the only people that seem to crap on the F22 in all forms are mostly the ones with H22's...


People always follow the trends when reccomending a path also...
The new trend seems to be F22 turbo... it used to be an H22 swap... Who knows... once people stop listening to all the misinformed F22 All motor naysayers... maybe all motor F22 will be the next trend...with everybody touting that as the best way to go...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ZigenBallz &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

and how would you know, H22 boy? You never went any further than Bolt ons with your F22B1/2...How would you know the potential of the F22? Might be a bit of a rude way to make my point... but it's still a very valid point as are my next couple...

It seems to me that the only people that seem to crap on the F22 in all forms are mostly the ones with H22's...


People always follow the trends when reccomending a path also...
The new trend seems to be F22 turbo... it used to be an H22 swap... Who knows... once people stop listening to all the misinformed F22 All motor naysayers... maybe all motor F22 will be the next trend...with everybody touting that as the best way to go...</TD></TR></TABLE>

i don't crap on F22s, turbo f22/f23 setups are making great power now. the thing is 2-3 years ago there was much less known about F22s then their are now. still my biggest problem with turbo or a built motor is that it will never be reliable as a swapped car, providing that you got a good motor and it was installed properly.

i don't think allmotor F22s will ever catch on. JDM H22s are selling for $2,000 plus shipping from reputable dealers. so lets say if you installed it yourself your probably looking at about 3,000 to have 197hp. i can't see an F22 getting to those power levels N/A for similar coin and still be streetable/reliable.

show me a dyno sheet that shows 182 whp and 150lb/trq or more power from a N/A F22 and done for under $5,000 and still be very streetable/reliable and been running strong for almost 2 years after putting 25K on it and then maybe i would reconsider.

also people follow trends cause they are generally what works best. look how many people have aem cai and apexi ws exhausts, could it be that the owners of them are extremely happy and that others want to be happy too.


Modified by KGAccord at 7:44 PM 1/26/2004

 

The f/i is becoming a trend cause people are getting good results from the boosted f series and the cost is worth the power and potential it yields.

edit: n/a f22 power is expensive and not worth imo either. If I ever see a f22b1 make or break 250fwhp all motor and n/a I will change my statement. Maybe with a custom tall deck block stroked on meth or alky with major compression you would get kinda close.


Modified by twkdCD595 at 1:48 PM 1/26/2004

 

Never been a big fan of the F series engines. Bolt ons can only take you so far. Granted I've never gone past into cams, pistons, etc. but I'd say your best route might be some form of F/I.

50 shot?

 

the biggest problem you will run into with all motor f series motors is the lack of aftermarket support for them...(though this is true for the f series in general i guess and not just for all motor applications) but aftermarket cams are all regrinds, there are no aftermarket valves or valve springs in mass production, so a lot of the parts will be custom made...this means that the cost will be high for every little part...sure, it would be cool to make an n/a monster out of the f22, and i'm not doubting that it's possible, but it's just not worth the money, as KG already stated...

also, I have an h22 and am a bigger fan of the f22 personally...less to go wrong and a much more reliable motor in my opinion...

 

to be honest...if i were to do it all over again i wish i just traded in my car for 5,800 which would have been a about a 1,500-2,000 loss at the time since my auto tranny was on the brink i couldn't sell it private and bought the 01 leftover base lude i could have had for 20,500 cause now 2 years later i want a newer car anyways cause now i want a wrx.

 

it will be easy to get pistons and rods for the f22b, head work will be same as any other engine. but the cams may be an issue. best bet is to get regrinds and have the shop put an h23a1 grind on it....

 

Not a set budget yet, looking into the near future though

 

I ment the basic f22b1

 

I came to terms with the fact I do want all motor. I got a friend who invested 30K on a Jetta boosting 363whp @ 15psi. He has constint problems and is lucky if he drives it 3 times a month and with the high octain prices, boy it gets pricey. I know thats alot of power and I am not saying that a small boost on an F22b1 would hurt anything, but I want a daily driver, yes the BOV does sound great. I am realalizing that a H22 might be a better bang for my buck, I just don't want a junked engine. I had a bad experiance with my 91 prelue.

Also, who knows the engine code for A JDM prelude S motor, and what is the most powerfull H series engine on the market I could drop in my accord?

 

thesttrongest stock h series are the h22a type-s , s-spec, and euro-r all at 217hp.
as far as aprelude si would assume it is an f22a since that is what the prelude s got over here.
anyway anyh kind of higher compression all motor build up is going to need premium gas. an h22a requires 91 minimum and does better on 93.

and it sounds like the guy with the jetta invested way too much money in the wrong shop cause with that kind of money he should be looking at enough power to competitvely drag race or enough reliability to be daily driven with gas and oil changes...

 

ohyeah and an f22b(dohc non vtec) is a totally diff engine than the f22b2 or b1...

 

[QUOTE=OEMaccord96]I came to terms with the fact I do want all motor.[QUOTE]

Exactly... and the very first post asked about ALL MOTOR...

I really get sick of all the people that chime in with unrelated H22 **** when someone asks about All Motor F22...

and the truth is that up to this point there is a semi-short list of people who are putting out good power all motor w/ an F22... partly due to all the naysayers and outright DISINFORMATION...the information is in effect suppressed and has almost an underground quality to it...because people close their minds to the possibilities and think they know it all without any firsthand knowledge whatsoever because they heard it on the internet....

It's a safe bet that when someone asks an F-series question some jackass who never went past bolt ons w/ their F and swapped an H22 will chime in...

remain small minded if you want KG but when I pull better times with my lowly Fseries with alot less money into it than a swapped H22 maybe you'll leave the armchair tech to the people who actually know what they are talking about...


The Fseries engine parts business is really starting to come into it's own over the past couple of years with new stuff becoming available everyday but it's because of the "why bother" posts that the info doesn't get out...

I swear.. if I see another person respond to an F22 cam question with, " Gude is the only one who makes one" I will continue to get grumpier about the whole thing and start to earn my F22 **** title...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ZigenBallz &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> [
I swear.. if I see another person respond to an F22 cam question with, " Gude is the only one who makes one" I will continue to get grumpier about the whole thing and start to earn my F22 **** title... </TD></TR></TABLE>
Gude is the only one that makes one. LMFAO

 

ZigenBallz....i support your statement and arguement. I've been trying all along and no one cares about the F22....it's a " lets all jump on the H22 bandwagon...yippeee!!" kinda deal. I've ben searchin for F22 parts and can now say there are more parts now than before. Support the F22.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Legendaryyaj &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Support the F22.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Right on... right on...right on...

Preach on brotherman...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Nick H &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> there are no aftermarket valves or valve springs in mass production, so a lot of the parts will be custom made...this means that the cost will be high for every little part</TD></TR></TABLE>

Thats just not true. Crower, Ferrea, and REV all make spring/retainer/valve sets for the F's. As far as the aftermarket cams all being regrinds, to my knowledge, thats dead on, though in a long discussion with one of the folks at Crower, they are looking into it.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ZigenBallz &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

The Fseries engine parts business is really starting to come into it's own over the past couple of years with new stuff becoming available everyday but it's because of the "why bother" posts that the info doesn't get out...

</TD></TR></TABLE>

that's the point...2-3 years ago there was next to nothing so when people like me wanted more it was H22 swap or go turbo, but it was still somewhat unchartered territory. you need to remember that many with H22s did them a long time ago and had reasons for it that you may not understand ie: blown auto trannies or blown or high mileage F22s. not everyone wants to build an old tired motor either, even still all motor is not what is best for an F22 since your SOHC, low compression, and many don't even have VTEC (which of course isn't really a performance VTEC anyways). If all motor is what you like then starting with a good base like the H22 just makes so more sense.

honeslty whatever path you decide your not going to please everybody, just do what you feel works for you. just because i stopped at bolt-ons is not reason to put down someone. true i'm no mechanic and i make no claims of being a tech, which is another reason why a simple and reliable H22 swap makes so much sense cause i can't mess with the car when it breaks. i do some work like oil and tires and stuff, but in no way am i going to do internal work on my motor. another thing one of the reasons for this webboard is to learn from others what works and what doesn't so you don't have to be a tech to know what is best. 2-3yrs ago h22 swap was the best thing to do, things change, don't put some down for doing something you would not have done because either way i still have a pretty nice and quick car and i'm not some dumb riceboy and we all share the same interests.

you can also look at it another way..we are all dumb for dropping so much money into our slow and heavy accords when we could have bought something else. like i said before i wish i had just bought a damn 01 lude.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by KGAccord &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

like i said before i wish i had just bought a damn 01 lude.</TD></TR></TABLE>


yeah dude, but with the aftermarket for that car you KNOW you'd be dropping even more cash!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ForceThis! &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">


yeah dude, but with the aftermarket for that car you KNOW you'd be dropping even more cash!</TD></TR></TABLE>

sshh honestly i would have done a drop, cai, and maybe rims and then let it be. i would not have blown a ton of coin on it. now the car i want now, a wrx, that car is a tough not spend on but to start i just want a drop and rims and then an upipe. one thing about getting older is you realize how foolishly you spent your money and then next time you won't be as dumb.

 

I'm in just about the same boat. 1997 Accord 22b2. Am I correct in assuming that one needs a programmable ecu as one of the first upgrades? If so , best bang for the buck?