I know this is Honda-Tech but I'm thinking about running in A Sedan. It's all Mustangs and Camaros with 5.0l motors. I think they have it in NASA and SCCA, but I'm not sure. I'm thinking about getting a Mustang because of an amazing deal I found and I want to build it to spec instead of treating it like I have my Civic, which may or may not meet the specs for Honda Challenge without major changes. Do any of you run in it or have anything you can input about it?

 

You might also want to look into NASA American Iron. Probably NASA's answer to AS. I donno much about AS though.

Here on the east coast they have nice big fields and the cars sound and look mean. (oh yea .. and they are almost as fast the your avg ECHC car. )

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SPiFF &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You might also want to look into NASA American Iron. Probably NASA's answer to AS. I donno much about AS though.

Here on the east coast they have nice big fields and the cars sound and look mean. (oh yea .. and they are almost as fast the your avg ECHC car. )</TD></TR></TABLE> Almost as fast? Can you or someone give me an example of lap times from both classes at the same track? I may want to try and keep my civic.

 

AI East: http://www.americaniron-east.com/results.shtml
ECHC: http://www.honda-challenge.com/results/index.html and http://www.honda-challenge.com....html

My comments were in jest. Their fastest cars are a bit faster then ours, but not by as much as 3X displacement would suggest.

Example in our favor:
CMP AIX: 1:49.252
CMP H1: 1:49.871

Example in their favor:
Lowe's AIX: 1:21.820
Lowe's H1: 1:25.019

 

Brake and tire management are the keys to AS.

I'm amazed how much power the top builder get out of the smallblock with the specified intake/carb (600CFM and a Performer manifold). I think 360hp motors are pretty standard and 400hp motors are possible.

NASA does not have AS. They do have American Iron, which is much less restrictive in what you can do, although it has a power/weight ratio (if you were to supercharge the motor, you'd have to carry extra weight).

You'll have to get the rules for both and see which you prefer.

 

In NASA the AI is the same as the AS for SCCA, they run almost the same specs. But in NASA you also have the choise to run in AIX, American Iron Extreme. Just like H1 the rules are really light. And Mustangs rule that class.

 

From Summit Point in 2003...

1.23.9 AS (WDCR National)
1.26.0 HC1 (NASA Fall PARRC)
1.26.5 AI (NASA Fall PARRC)

HC1 and AI have similar power to weight ratios, so they are similar speeds. The AI cars probably have higher top speeds, but the HC1 cars have much less weight.

 

I hope he's kidding on both counts. Fastest AI lap times are faster or equal to the fastest H1 laptimes.

Kershaw 1:51 (AI), 1:49 (AIX), 1:49 (H1) * (APRIL)
Beaver Run 1:05 (AI), 1:03 (AIX), 1:05 (H1) (MAY)
Summit Point 1:24 (AI), 1:22 (AIX), 1:26 (H1) (JULY)
VIR North 1:42 (AI), 1:39 (AIX), 1:42 (H1) (AUGUST)
Lowes MS 1:22 (AI), 1:18 (AIX), 1:25 (H1) (AUGUST)
Kershaw N/R, N/R, 1:52 (H1) (SEPT)


Lap Records:
BeaveRun
J.Hoover #17 1:05.837 May 2003 (AI)
J.Behrendt #97 1:02.748 May 2003 (AIX)
James Evans 1:05.072 05/17/03 (H1)

Carolina Motorsports Park
J.Hoover #17 1:51.121 April 2003 (AI)
L.Lesneski #98 1:49.252 April 2003 (AIX)
James Evans 1:49.871 04/06/03 (H1)

Lowes Motorspeedway (Charlotte)
R.Koehler #88 1:24.031 September 2002 (AI)
L.Lesneski #98 1:21.820 September 2002 (AIX)
James Evans 1:25.019 08/24/03 (H1)

Summit Point
R.Koehler #88 1:24.650 April 2003 (AI)
L.Lesneski #98 1:21.404 November 2002 (AIX)
James Evans 1:26.026 11/01/03 (H1)

Virginia International Raceway North Course
J Hoover #17 1:42.624 August 2003 (AI)
D.Schlickenmeyer 1.39.937 August 2003 (AIX)
James Evans 1:42.480 08/02/03 (H1)


I do not know the costs with American Sedan. I do think that this year, with the Griggs cars coming East, the price of AI motoring just got a little more expensive. I believe that Maximum Motorsports (which already sponsors two cars AFAIK) becoming more involved and new contingency incentives by Kenny Brown, the price to build a competetive AI car will continue to rise. AIX is pretty much a no brainer. AS perhaps will be a bigger bugetary expenditure motor-wise but due to the allowances to body, suspension, transmission in AI (only needed to meet a Tq/Wt and Hp/Wt ratio) will eventually make it the more expensive playground. JMO though.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ITAcelica &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">In NASA the AI is the same as the AS for SCCA, they run almost the same specs.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Not at all.

AI has a minimum weight of 2700lbs
AS is typically in the 3200lb range (varies by chassis)

AS has speced intake and carb
AI has open engine mods (but a power to weight ratio)

AS has several pages of suspension rules.
AI has very few suspension specs.

Reading the rules, AS looks like it could almost be a sub-set of the AI rules (IE most AS cars will be AI legal, but not vice versa).

 

What about the newer camaro-mustang challenge series? I haven't read the rulebook so I don't know what it's all about.

http://www.camaromustangchallenge.com/

[edit] after looking briefly, the rules look pretty simple. There's a horsepower max. Looks like it could be a lower cost series than AI, but what do I know.

---------------

All CMC cars may not exceed the following adjusted maximum rear wheel chassis dynamometer horsepower and torque figures:

Ford 5.0, 4.6 and GM 305:
Horsepower (hp): 230 @ Factory RPM Range*
Torque (lb/ft): 300 @ Factory RPM Range*

GM 5.7 LT1:
Horsepower: 250@ Factory RPM Range
Torque: 300@ Factory RPM Range

 

Thanks for all the good info, but it is making me sad that I am going to have to get rid of my Civic.

 

Thanks for making it clear I always thought it was the same like the IT specs.