Technical answer why 5 speeds have less towing capacity according to the Dealerships? no one in the dealership could give me a straight answer on why, I was quessing because there supposevely more torque in the automatic ( but doesn't weigh more with the auto?)? and the truck I was looking at was a 5 speed 4X4 V6 TRD Tacoma and I will be using it to tow with, also anybody that tows with a 5 speed I would also be intrested what they think and like? Thanks in adavance later

 

i think wear and tear is potentially greater.

Also the main part of an automatic transmission is the torque convertor which essentially takes HP and multiplies it to make more torque!

Semis have manual transmissions.. They also have monster clutches and pressure plates bigger than Pamela Andersons Chest..

I have seen people tow with 5 speeds.. I think it depends on the vehicle greatly!

 

it's been a while since i've driven a 'yota 5 spd truck but from what i remember the 5speed was way more torquey than the shitbox auto that they usually put in their compact trucks.

as far as towing capacity, maybe it has something to do with the OE clutch not being up to spec? it's hard for me to imagine the 'yota 4spd auto being torquier than their 5spd box.

 

Generally, it has to do with how much torque they rate the clutch and transmission for. I've had one 5 speed tow vehicle, and I'd never do it again. If you've ever tried to back a trailer up a hill into a garage with a 5 speed, you'd understand how hard it can be on the clutch. Automatics can creep along with the torque converter doing all the work, and 8 quarts of ATF to soak up the heat. With a clutch, if you need a speed slower than the available gear, you're generating very high temperatures because there's nothing to transfer the heat to except the flywheel and clutch. Also, many of the 5 speeds they put in smaller trucks just aren't that strong. Mine was a 94 Cherokee, and 2nd gear was getting very hard to engage after a year of towing (2nd transmission - the first completely lost 4th gear, so it may just be a shitty tranny design). Automatics are just so much easier in traffic and when parking, particularly with a heavy trailer.

-Chris

 

It's the clutch, the whole clutch, and nothing but the clutch.

K

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Knestis &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">It's the clutch, the whole clutch, and nothing but the clutch.

K</TD></TR></TABLE>

I can back this up. I've read this on many Ford Diesel Truck forums.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Knestis &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">It's the clutch, the whole clutch, and nothing but the clutch.

K</TD></TR></TABLE>

yes, thats true, but I would rather change 4 clutches then 1 auto tranny...

I am one of the very few people that will only tow with a manual tranny... I have heard way to many towing incidents with autos, and next to none with manuals.. But you are correct, if you tow a lot of weight with a manual, your going to replace a clutch when you get to 50k.. If you don't tow with the truck, it will go to 100k with a clutch..

My 1985 Ford 6.9L Diesel 4 speed with 230k on it has had 3 clutches in it, but the driveline still runs and shifts great, considering 60% of its roadtime was towing.. Not many autos can go that long without being replaced

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Knestis &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">It's the clutch, the whole clutch, and nothing but the clutch.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

Its because most people don't know how to properly drive a stich shift when the vehicle is loaded.

I pull all the time with my Frontier, and I go way past the rated capacity for the 5 speed. In two years I have never had any problems.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Knestis &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">It's the clutch, the whole clutch, and nothing but the clutch.

K</TD></TR></TABLE>



An automatic torque converter can handle the towing abuse much better than a clutch. Especially in low speed or stop-and-go situations.

 

I was slightly confused for a second...then I realized that, rather than a 5-speed being the concern, a manual transmission was the concern.

I'm better now.

Jarrod
(Ford Excursion, 5-speed automatic, 11,000 lb tow rating)

 

If you drive commercially, then the manuals are typically more widely used because of the lower maintenance costs, and the gearboxes are geared low enough to start the truck fully loaded from almost an idle. I bet Toyotas gearbox is designed for driveability for the everyday commuter more than someone who wants to tow a large payload, so that would be the reason the clutch isn't up to the task. No matter how heavy duty of a clutch you put in it, you would have to slip the **** out of it to get the vehicle going. Then you have a whole bunch of warranty claims from people...etc...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JHill &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> I bet Toyotas gearbox is designed for driveability for the everyday commuter more than someone who wants to tow a large payload, so that would be the reason the clutch isn't up to the task. No matter how heavy duty of a clutch you put in it, you would have to slip the **** out of it to get the vehicle going. Then you have a whole bunch of warranty claims from people...etc...</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yota trannies are almost indestructible... almost

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by infinatenexus &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Yota trannies are almost indestructible... almost
</TD></TR></TABLE>

I hope so.

SPiFF, who is now towing w/ Toyota power + 5AT slushybox.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by infinatenexus &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Yota trannies are almost indestructible... almost </TD></TR></TABLE>

yeah, that's why i have a turbo 350 transmission in mine.

and for the record, i would prefer a manual.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by del_parker &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

yeah, that's why i have a turbo 350 transmission in mine.

and for the record, i would prefer a manual.</TD></TR></TABLE>


Lol.. I had a old school 22r with a stich.. and it handeled 35's just fine

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by infinatenexus &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Yota trannies are almost indestructible... almost </TD></TR></TABLE>

No doubt about that, I've tryed myself. All I was saying is that it may not be geared for towing.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Honda318dx &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

yes, thats true, but I would rather change 4 clutches then 1 auto tranny...

I am one of the very few people that will only tow with a manual tranny... I have heard way to many towing incidents with autos, and next to none with manuals.. But you are correct, if you tow a lot of weight with a manual, your going to replace a clutch when you get to 50k.. If you don't tow with the truck, it will go to 100k with a clutch..

My 1985 Ford 6.9L Diesel 4 speed with 230k on it has had 3 clutches in it, but the driveline still runs and shifts great, considering 60% of its roadtime was towing.. Not many autos can go that long without being replaced</TD></TR></TABLE>


My 3/4 ton Dodge cummins turbo diesel has 226k on the oem automatic tranny. still going strong, and while it doesn't get much use towing, every now and then it's used to move our 40ft tag along that carries quiet a bit of stuff.

 

auto tranny can over heat also with a big load, and often do. If I were to get one I would make sure it had a nice big cooler for the fluid.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by infinatenexus &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Yota trannies are almost indestructible... almost </TD></TR></TABLE>

I destroyed the synchro pack on my yota tranny once :0

as a stupid kid driving around town in a 5300 lb 4runner, speed shifting and trying to chirp 31" tires and generally driving like an *******--i think that transmission met its match and lost.

 

As for 'Yota trannys being indestructible, I'll take exception to that, at least for a C56 transaxle in a Celica. Me, and a few others, have had bearings on the output side go kaplooey.

Put back to the comment at hand regarding towing with manual tranny, it does really come down to how much faith the manufacturer puts in its clutch and transmission, based on expected warranty claims. My old ’88 Ranger was rated to tow only 1700lbs with the 5 speed M5OD and 3.45 rear. An automatic would have raised that rating to something like 4500 or 5000. The slushbox definitely would not have performed as well, or as long. I never had to touch the clutch in 150,000 miles, and only changed tranny fluid twice, this on a gearbox not known for longevity. The auto would have crapped out at least twice in that mileage.

The key was minimizing clutch slippage. Start-ups were basically just dumping the clutch while adding gas. Helped that the truck had a heavy flywheel. Backing was done, shall we say, with careful attention to clutch engagement, especially during the period of time when I lived in a condo, and had the keep the race car and trailer out of sight in a garage that required a 90 degree bend to an uphill 20’ long driveway, then getting the 7’-6” wide trailer through an 8’ door. The clutch only got stinky a few times, and I got real good at it real quick, as me, the truck, car and trailer were going the events almost every weekend.

Having towed with manual tranny under-trucked vehicles, and the current adequate 5.0/4RW70 Exploder, and the excessive 460/E4OD RV, I kind of like shifting it myself. It all depends on the vehicle, motor, gears, tranny, what’s being pulled, and general circumstance.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by preparedcivic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">As for 'Yota trannys being indestructible, I'll take exception to that, at least for a C56 transaxle in a Celica. Me, and a few others, have had bearings on the output side go kaplooey.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Sorry.. I ment truck trannies

 

I'm sure it has to do with the clutch wearing out faster if you're towing a lot of weight.

EDIT funny thing . . .with the new format of HT I thought that nobody had answered your question, then I saw all the responses LOL . . . . that space between the first post and the responses makes it look like there are no responses

 

I have 1998 V6 Tacoma Xtracab 5sp. It is on it's second season of towing and I hope things will go well. I figure, that the slow speed stuff (which according to replies in this post damages the clutch) is maybe 5-10% of my driving so, I am not too concerned.

 

As others have replied, your clutch is the most limiting factor.. (how much clamping force it provides). BUT, if you tow more than the rating, not only would be doing damage to the clutch but you will be wearing out the transmission quicker too. There is a lot going on inside and the gears are designed to handle up to a certain load. there are all sorts of bearing and other load carrying parts in the trans that will/could be damaged. (I have seen bearing failure from this)

 

For those of you who tow with a V6 Tacoma, can you please give some insight on how happy you are with the setup? Does the rear of the truck sag excessivly whem loaded? have you attempted to add airbags or helper springs? Is the TRD package worth the extra money for someone who is not planning on much off-highway use?

I am thinking of buying a 2004 Tacoma to eventually tow with and that is why I am interested
TIA