Anyway, my S2K scares me in stock form. I just did my first track day this Sunday and I have to say that it is a little annoying how difficult it is to retrieve the rear end after it goes out at 70mph. Keep in mind I'm on some pretty used up S02's in the rear and good ones up front.

I'm seriously thinking of adding a front sway bar like the comptech just to get the car a little more neutral. I didn't experience on ounce of understeer and I'm having a hard time finding the edge with out going past it.

Has anybody else experienced this and calmed the rear down a bit for track events? I don't mind the oversteer so much duing auto-x since it's easier to control at lower speeds but on the track I get so tense while tenatively finding the edge.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by glagola1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Anyway, my S2K scares me in stock form. I just did my first track day this Sunday and I have to say that it is a little annoying how difficult it is to retrieve the rear end after it goes out at 70mph. Keep in mind I'm on some pretty used up S02's in the rear and good ones up front.

I'm seriously thinking of adding a front sway bar like the comptech just to get the car a little more neutral. I didn't experience on ounce of understeer and I'm having a hard time finding the edge with out going past it.

Has anybody else experienced this and calmed the rear down a bit for track events? I don't mind the oversteer so much duing auto-x since it's easier to control at lower speeds but on the track I get so tense while tenatively finding the edge. </TD></TR></TABLE>

have you had an alignment done? checked tire pressures while at the track? running stock tire sizes?

 

not saying I know alot about s2k's

but I hear about this trait alot,
that they're just really "edgy" in terms of oversteer and the rearend breaking lose.

But yeah, I'd say get your dampers/spings done first before going ahead and upgradign swaybars.

you can dial in the balance of the car really well with proper sprign/shock choices,
and with adjustable shocks/dampers you'll be able to mess around with it till you find what you like.

only then would I use swaybar upgrades, and only as a garnish.

 

It is more then likely your tire's, the S02's break point in a very fine line. That and they make very little noise at the limit in my opinion that makes it harder to judge when you are about to cross that line.

I would suggest new tire's and possibly a more aggressive alignment before you start with the other add on's.

 

ive heard of this "twitchyness" aswell.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tad &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">not saying I know alot about s2k's

but I hear about this trait alot,
that they're just really "edgy" in terms of oversteer and the rearend breaking lose.

But yeah, I'd say get your dampers/spings done first before going ahead and upgradign swaybars.

you can dial in the balance of the car really well with proper sprign/shock choices,
and with adjustable shocks/dampers you'll be able to mess around with it till you find what you like.

only then would I use swaybar upgrades, and only as a garnish.</TD></TR></TABLE>

few aftermarket suspension systems don't come close to the stock setup unless the 3rd party knows what they are doing. You can't just slap something together and expect better lap times. The stock system works VERY well. Learn how to drive the car in it's current form with an alignment setting from someone knowledgable.

There is nothing wrong with the S02s, they are a great dry weather tire and like all things, all the errors in the driver need to be sorted out first before saying the car is problem or there are problems with the car.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by vapor &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
There is nothing wrong with the S02s, they are a great dry weather tire and like all things, all the errors in the driver need to be sorted out first before saying the car is problem or there are problems with the car. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Since the rears are so low, it wouldn't be a bad idea to switch to something with a more gradual breakaway characteristic then the S02's, until he catches on, then once he's got it, skip past the S02's onto r-compounds.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by vapor &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

few aftermarket suspension systems don't come close to the stock setup unless the 3rd party knows what they are doing. You can't just slap something together and expect better lap times. The stock system works VERY well. Learn how to drive the car in it's current form with an alignment setting from someone knowledgable.

There is nothing wrong with the S02s, they are a great dry weather tire and like all things, all the errors in the driver need to be sorted out first before saying the car is problem or there are problems with the car. </TD></TR></TABLE>

I have to agree with Vapor - Just swapping in new suspension, or getting a front anti-sway bar isn't going to compensate much more if the driver isn't on the same level as the car. I think we all agree the S2k is fun and unique car - but at the same time, it's handling charactoristics are special too.

Several Top notch - NATIONAL level autocrossers I've spoken with, have advised me to keep autocrossing with the S02s and get better before I switch to race rubber. It only makes sense to learn how to handle the car in stock form, because if can't handle stock, you surely aren't going to do much better with it modified. IMO.

 

Thanks for the replies guys. I've ordered some new S02's for the rear today and think an alignment is called for. I had forgotten about that. I totally agree about learning the car before moding it. I surely don't think I can fix the problems with my driving skills with bolt ons. I've only owned the car for a couple months and have only one auto-x (with one rear spring spacer on ) and one track day so I'm definately not at the level of the car.

Honda has to know what they were doing when they designed the car and I don't think upgrading the suspension first is a good idea. Maybe on a civic but the S2k is pretty stiff from the get go.

It is funny how for the '04 Honda did several things to calm the rear down. IE: bigger front bar, smaller rear bar, stiffer front springs, softer rear springs, more tire stagger biased towards the rear. Just makes you wonder. Did they do it because they felt the '00 model was too twitchy for the public or just too twitchy even for track use? I'd like to talk to one of those designers.

Going from a civic that I could manhandle to this car is a humbling experience.

 

glagola1 - All I gotta say is "good job!" You are working with the car in stock form with the OEM spec tires. It's pretty kick *** to see individuals like yourself heading out to an autocross and then the track.

When you get the new tires in, let me know when you head in for an alignment and I can make several recommendations regarding setups. I've been through all too many and finally settled on one that is slightly aggressive and another that is really aggressive.

 

Cool ... Thanks, I'm all about driving the car. I used to have a fast turbo charged civic and then I started auto-xing and found that the car was more fun n/a and basically have been developing my driving skill since then. That's why I got an S.

Anyway, What are the specs on those alingments? I've read that the european spec is good but haven't looked into what those specs actually are.

I pretty much plan on hitting every auto-x of the season and a few track days here and there. I drive the car to work every day and I'm about to install a 4.77 gear set. ... just some back ground on how I drive the car to consider while deciding on an alignment setting.

Thanks, Matt

 

The S-02s are great street tires and are very capable for track use, especially for beginner/intermediate drivers. An aggressive alignment is a good starting point. I'm currently using something like this:

Front Camber: L = -1.0, R = -1.0
Rear Camber: L = -2.0, R = -2.0
Front Caster: Maxed out on both sides @ around 6.4
Front Toe: 0
Rear Toe: L = 0.13in, R = 0.13in

The car pushes a tiny bit on entry, is very neutral at steady state, and exhibits some power oversteer on exit. IMO, it's a very good setup. If you're willing to sacrifice tire wear more, you can go with a more aggressive set up (something like -1.5 deg. of camber at the front and -2.5 deg. of camber at the rear). In addition, monitor your tire pressures after every session. I usually run with the rear pressures 1 or 2 PSI lower than the fronts. Good luck!

 

Thanks, that sounds like a good starting point.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by S2Thizzle &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The S-02s are great street tires and are very capable for track use, especially for beginner/intermediate drivers. An aggressive alignment is a good starting point. I'm currently using something like this:

Front Camber: L = -1.0, R = -1.0
Rear Camber: L = -2.0, R = -2.0
Front Caster: Maxed out on both sides @ around 6.4
Front Toe: 0
Rear Toe: L = 0.13in, R = 0.13in

The car pushes a tiny bit on entry, is very neutral at steady state, and exhibits some power oversteer on exit. IMO, it's a very good setup. If you're willing to sacrifice tire wear more, you can go with a more aggressive set up (something like -1.5 deg. of camber at the front and -2.5 deg. of camber at the rear). In addition, monitor your tire pressures after every session. I usually run with the rear pressures 1 or 2 PSI lower than the fronts. Good luck!</TD></TR></TABLE>

I'd recommend this setup, but with a bit more aggressive front end. I feel the car needs -1.25 to -1.5 in the front. I usually set it up for -1.5 in the front and -2.25 in the rear. Toe IN in the rear, like Thizzle stated, is what you need, and just that much. Neutral toe in the front is fine. If you want a bit more turn-in for tighter courses, or say autocross, you can hit just a tad bit more of toe-OUT in the front, say.. 1/8th. But the car at that point will be darty.

Tire pressures, I'd go with 36#'s COLD all the way around. Monitor the pressures from there. Each time you come into the pits, jump out of the car - and remember don't use the e-brake - leave the car running and grab your tire pressure gauge and measure pressures. Keep a log of it all, with alignment setups, and any changes at all. Make comments about how each session feels - significant or not, it's wise to keep it in a log book to review for future references. Later on, when you go back to the alignment shop, after a track day or two on the next alignment setting, you can know what you want to set it at from prior experiences.