I was just at willow springs this weekend and noticed that my brakes were getting pretty squishy after a few laps. I currently have axis metal master pads and ATE fluid and i thought the fluid would keep the pedal from being mushy but it hasn't. Any one have any ideas of how to improve the braking feel and/or shorten the distance? I was thinking maybe SS lines or could it be i just need to bleed the brakes. I dont remember the pedal being this mushy after that last events. thanks.
-RJ

 

Yeah, get rid of those metalmasters... they fade quickly...

 

Your problem is here:

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I currently have axis metal master pads </TD></TR></TABLE>

 

edit: i have axis ultimates not metal master, sorry for the confusion.

 

A) Mushy = pedal sinking closer and closer to the floor?

Or

B) Mushy = pedal still pretty firm, but car not stopping as quickly?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by aesthetics82 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">edit: i have axis ultimates not metal master, sorry for the confusion.</TD></TR></TABLE>

It really doesn't matter. Axxis pads' properties in general are not condusive to driving on the track.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by John &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

It really doesn't matter. Axxis pads' properties in general are not condusive to driving on the track. </TD></TR></TABLE>


so would my stock pads be better for the track compared to the axis ultimates??

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ZUL8R &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
so would my stock pads be better for the track compared to the axis ultimates??</TD></TR></TABLE>

The nearly new stock pads that came with my Sentra never faded at Summit Point. Of course, they were on the backing plate in 45 minutes...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ZUL8R &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">


so would my stock pads be better for the track compared to the axis ultimates??</TD></TR></TABLE>


Probably not I used Ultimates for my first few events... but then I wore them out.. so I bough some more and a Pair of Carbotech P+'s to use on the track.

 

Roebling isnt a hard braking course anyway

got some new fluid in thur and bled them so they are good to go. I will bring the stock pads with me anyways.. the axis pad i have are only amonth or so old with a few autox's on them

 

Also, if you have dust shields around the brakes, I would take them off to help with cooling....

 

brakes get mushy=the pedal goes all the way to the floor and there isnt much pedal feel. the reason i got the axis ultimates was because that was what the guys at cobalt recommended. can u give me suggestions as to what kinda pads would be good? and i dont want anything that squeks on the street. thanks.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 1GreyTeg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">A) Mushy = pedal sinking closer and closer to the floor?

Or

B) Mushy = pedal still pretty firm, but car not stopping as quickly?

</TD></TR></TABLE>

I'd like to know too??

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by aesthetics82 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">brakes get mushy=the pedal goes all the way to the floor and there isnt much pedal feel. </TD></TR></TABLE>

That sounds like air in the brake lines and or boiling the fluid then, which could be because of several things but, is solved with a nice full bleed with brand new (from a sealed container) brake fluid. Check your rotor and pad thickness and the action of the calipers and adjust your rear E-brake if neccessary just to be safe.

Of course if you care to talk about pad compounds or getting different ones then contact Andie again, he always seems to have time to talk shop, knows his **** and is a Hell of a nice guy.

Removing dust shields is also a good idea but, not totally neccessary if you are just hitting DE's from time to time.

Mushy pedal is annoying, my brake pedal has sunk so bad that I've had to pump the pedal several times just to get pressure to stop, the pads do a great job once there's pressure to clamp them, but combine that all with heel-toe down shifting and you're in for some very interesting entertainemnt when taking corners.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nonsense &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I'd like to know too?? </TD></TR></TABLE>

Some people label each differently and or incorrectly and I hoped that he'd choose one to narrow it down a bit more.

A) is most commonly attributed to brake fluid, getting air bubbles in the line/caliper and or boiling the fluid.

B) is known to be attributed to pad/compound fade at higher than intended operating temperatures and or green pad fade when a newer pad is not bedded in correctly and then romped on.

There is much to braking, and much more that more experienced drivers and racers here could assist with. I'm just sharing what I know and have experienced personally and what solved my issue or issues. I've had mushy pedal syndrome as he described and it was overheating the fluid. Bleeding the system solved 60% of my issue with boiling, 20% more is cooling the caliper and keeping the fluid from boiling for me, 20% more will be learning to use my brakes more efficiently and effectively.

But, even at full blown race levels, different pro drivers may be harder or easier on brakes. After learning how to brake well, I feel it to be more of a finesse, that I am still developing.

 

Couldn't a bad brake booster cause the pedal to drop to the floor also as well as a mushy pedal?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by emissionsux &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Couldn't a bad brake booster cause the pedal to drop to the floor also as well as a mushy pedal?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yes, but if that's the case, after pressing the brake pedal a few times, you'll have no brake pressure at all. I doubt that was the author's problem was though. My experience with Honda brake master cylinders is that when they go, they go quickly.

 

Cool..just wanted to know. Thanks

 

RJ, get the front end up in the air, remove the pads, put both pads from one caliper back to back and see if the backing plates are bent. I'd think the are not straight. It won't explain "squishy" (actually it would) but that they were fading would and continuous pedal pressure (edging closer to the floor) on brakes that aren't working in my experience typically bends the backers. Then you have compounded issues as they are no longer wearing correctly. If that's not the case, then I'd look at brake fluid. My guess is that the wet boiling temps for ATE SB in the caliper are in excess of the heat generated by Axxis Ultimates in an HPDE but that's a SWAG. So its not that there isn't a need to change brake fluid, its just that I am guessing that's the lesser of your concerns. I agree w/ others that you don't necessarily want to remove the dust shields on a street/track car. I have also found that although 90% of the time people point to brake fluid, its been an extremely rare occurance (over 3 cars) that a performance brake fluid has been the problem.

YMMV, JMO and all that other stuff

 

the brake pads are fairly new as well as the fluid, there prolly about 3 events and 6 months old. im thinking that i might need to bleed the brakes since i havent bled them since ive had the new pads and fluid. is it true that you should bleed them after a track event? since the pads/fluid is pretty new i dont think that would be the problem but who knows. the big track at willow springs can be pretty hard on the brakes b/c of the high speeds reached there and thenthe need to slow down pretty quickly. thanks for all the help guys.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by aesthetics82 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">is it true that you should bleed them after a track event? </TD></TR></TABLE>

In my opinion, no.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">and i dont want anything that squeks on the street.</TD></TR></TABLE>

It may be time for you to step up to a real dedicated track-only pad....