Well I ordered Yokohama AVS ES100s: ,205/50 front and 195/55 rear...personally i sorta miss the perfect balance but i seems that you can go a lot faster with this setup. The rear sets out slightly but the front isnt going anywhere and thats were the power is going. The car turns A LOT quciker and more precise too. Im very happy with my setup just thought id share. I ordered them from http://www.discounttiredirect.com for $350 and also purchased 4 certrtifcates that will replace the tires for free (free shipping too) if they ever wear down, get a nail...anything really and there is no limited milage on the certificates either

 

Glad you like them, I've been considering purchasing them for my next set.

 

i've always wanted to try staggered sizes, something like F 225/45R16 R 195/55R15, can you say lift throttle oversteer

 

I would not recommend staggered sizes. Especially when they're so close anyway.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nsxtasy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I would not recommend staggered sizes.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Maybe for an autocross set-up, but I don't see the point for daily driving.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nsxtasy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I would not recommend staggered sizes. Especially when they're so close anyway.
</TD></TR></TABLE> please explain

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mugen Mike &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Maybe for an autocross set-up, but I don't see the point for daily driving.</TD></TR></TABLE>


i would like to try staggered sizes on a circuit/autoX for sure, definitely not for everyday driving.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 98cwitr &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> please explain</TD></TR></TABLE>

Staggered sizes is the "worst of both worlds", compared to either size.

The 195/55-15 has some advantages (keeps the odometer accurate, keeps the gearing accurate) while the 205/50-15 has a slight cornering/acceleration advantage (VERY slight) but will make your speedometer read high (okay) and your odometer read high (bad), and will have a slightly bulging look on stock 15x6 wheels, and costs 28 percent more.

Using staggered sizes basically gives you both sets of disadvantages, plus you'll never be able to rotate the tires to even out the wear.

 

Oversteering

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by v-attack &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Oversteering
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Gimme a break. Unless you're a pretty bad driver and or intentionally thowing the car into corners with the intention of sliding and or using the Ebrake a 205/50/15 F 195/55/15 R is not going to make your car oversteer so much that it will be tremendously noticeable. IE you've got to push to make it happen.

And as Ken said, staggering this way is absolutely NOT a good idea for regular street use, actually almost useless. Although I don't feel that the negatives he pointed out about changing from stock size to 205/50's to be something to keep you from doing an even tire size swapped all around, I Totally agree about this particular staggering application and it being used for street or daily use.

I wondered the point of this staggering when I read this post earlier, I'm still looking for an explanation WHY?

Even competitive autocrosses and roadracers don't stagger as much as you'd think. To begin with it is totally Not cost effective. How do you plan to rotate them?

 

You use suspension to rotate the car, sway bars to balance each end of it. Tires and tire sizes should have nothing to do with the rotation of the car.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by fuko &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i've always wanted to try staggered sizes, something like F 225/45R16 R 195/55R15, can you say lift throttle oversteer </TD></TR></TABLE>


yes i can....and is the best setup to date that i ran on my hatch

 

Doesnt the different diameter of the tires F/R cause ABS issues?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Patch &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You use suspension to rotate the car, sway bars to balance each end of it. Tires and tire sizes should have nothing to do with the rotation of the car.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I think you misunderstood our (1Greyteg's and my) comments about rotating. We were referring to rotating the tires, not the car. In other words - taking the front tires off and moving them to the back, swapping them with the rear tires which get moved to the front - to even out tire wear (not only overall wear, but any uneven wear patterns, front vs rear).

 

I understand what you guys were trying to say about tire rotation.

My point was that if he wanted the car to rotate better, then he should have invested in shocks/coilovers (with higher rear spring rates). Running staggered tire sizes is dumb.

 

actually in FF cars, the tendency is to understeer. You actually have to set up the car inorder to oversteer. a 205/195 tire combo will reduce understeer, and promote rotation because the rear has less tire contact as compared to the front. Other ways to setup a "less understeer" type of suspension would be to run stiffer rear springs, and shortening the rear track. Theortically this will make you faster in the corners,Don't bash this setup because you don't do it. Most FF circuit cars are setup this way for the track, albiet with larger fronts than he has.
however as mentioned before I don't know how good it is daily on the streets or maybe his has lots of money and doesn't need to rotate his tires....

 

actually all 4 cost me around $350 and $125 for mounting, balancing, and a 4 wheel alignment. As i said before, i bought (unlimited milage) replacement certificates to replace the tires when they become worn or if i get a flat...
these certificates were like $12-$20/pair...

http://www.discounttiredirect.com rocks and recieved my shipment within 3 days FREE SHIPPING TOO!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 98cwitr &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> As i said before, i bought (unlimited milage) replacement certificates to replace the tires when they become worn or if i get a flat...
</TD></TR></TABLE>

when i first read this, i was like 'where do i sign up'.. you get free unlimited tire replacement for worn out tires??.. i hope that's not what you think..
quote from discount tire website:

How am I covered?
In the event one or more of your tires fail due to defect, or incurs damage that cannot be repaired, Discount Tire Direct will replace it absolutely FREE, (this includes freight to you). No matter how many miles you have put on the tires, you will be covered.

you don't get replacements just because they're worn..

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 1GreyTeg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Even competitive autocrosses and roadracers don't stagger as much as you'd think. To begin with it is totally Not cost effective. How do you plan to rotate them?

</TD></TR></TABLE>

....lots of JDM racers do.....like Sp00n..

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 1GreyTeg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Gimme a break. Unless you're a pretty bad driver and or intentionally thowing the car into corners with the intention of sliding and or using the Ebrake a 205/50/15 F 195/55/15 R is not going to make your car oversteer so much that it will be tremendously noticeable. IE you've got to push to make it happen.

And as Ken said, staggering this way is absolutely NOT a good idea for regular street use, actually almost useless. Although I don't feel that the negatives he pointed out about changing from stock size to 205/50's to be something to keep you from doing an even tire size swapped all around, I Totally agree about this particular staggering application and it being used for street or daily use.

I wondered the point of this staggering when I read this post earlier, I'm still looking for an explanation WHY?

Even competitive autocrosses and roadracers don't stagger as much as you'd think. To begin with it is totally Not cost effective. How do you plan to rotate them?

</TD></TR></TABLE>


I was simply stating in the event that you would need to oversteer to some degree it is fun. The feeling, the car's actions. etc. etc.
Nor do I have my car setup with staggered sizes.

 

Not to hijack the thread or anything.....but is it even worth getting 205 tires over 195???

 

The oversteer you're experiencing is probably because the tires are new. The deeper tread means more tread squirm when the tires are new, so as they wear down, they'll stick more and probably won't understeer as much.

 

why different sizes??

why not just go 205s all the way around?

 

did you not read at all, you stagger the tires to get more rotation in the rear. I'm not saying if it is good or bad, but that is what it gives you... some auto cross people do it, and many circuit company's do it, eg mugen spoon, buddy club