taking the scenic route down highway 1 on the way home from laguna seca i took some damage. a softball sized rock wrecked me at about 35mph - the subaru outback in front of me cruised right over it, so i had no time to maneuver (and i was on the side of a mountain). the horrific sound alone made me shudder. i quickly pulled over to inspect the carnage (after reminding said subaru owner that he was number one). whew! miraculously missed the oil pan. i figured anything else was of little consequence and continued on.

it somehow hit the center jacking point, and then the part of the front subframe that the lca is connected to on the driver's side. by the time i was back on the highway, it was clear something was amiss - the occasional jerking of the steering wheel to the right was now every 10 seconds, and hard.

the damage:


jacking point (minimal)


subframe (not so minimal)


upon further inspection: what's missing?


uh oh.


the energy suspension bushing is completely deteriorated - i didn't even know this was possible. does polyurethane have a shelf life? i don't know how long they were sitting before i purchased them, but they were still shrinkwrapped from the factory when i did, and they were installed by me less than two months ago. i was plenty generous with the es lube. i don't think the rotted out bushing is a result of the rock, it just brought it to light.

would it make sense that the steering wheel jerking i was experiencing (to the right) was caused in part by this crapped out bushing (on driver's side)?

i took a few measurements, and that part of the subframe that accepts the lca is approx 1/8th of an inch wider where the bolt goes through, as compared to the other side. i hope that when the bushing is replaced, things are not so whacked out that an alignment wouldn't fix it (good thing i got one four weeks ago).

i was also thrilled to notice that there are tiny tears in the driver's side cv boot and passenger's side caliper piston boot. autozone here i come.

happy new year.

thoughts?

 

amazing, it completely came apart. remind me not to put any poly in my car...

 

I had no idea about that happening to poly bushings. I'm about to replace all in my rear LCAs. Already bought them, so might as well use them.

OTOH, you made it through a rainy track day without any damage ( I assume...I didn't watch your video yet), then only to suffer this kind of damage on the road home.

At least you got to drive it home. I just upgraded my AAA membership to include free towing for 100 miles instead of the regular 7 miles, just in case. I've seen enough ppl having to tow their cars from Buttonwillow or Willow Springs for a few hundred $$$$.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ruthless013 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">the energy suspension bushing is completely deteriorated - i didn't even know this was possible. does polyurethane have a shelf life? i don't know how long they were sitting before i purchased them, but they were still shrinkwrapped from the factory when i did, and they were installed by me less than two months ago. i was plenty generous with the es lube. i don't think the rotted out bushing is a result of the rock, it just brought it to light.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

I've never seen a poly bushing do that, so I would suggest contacting ES about the issue (since it seems to me to be a quality control issue). Since we're on this topic, what kind of lubricant does ES use?

 

I'm curious if you aren't grounding the electrics at or near a point where electricity would be conducted through this bushing. I just have a hard time believing that that bushing failed like that without some sort of help. You don't double-duty that thing as a submarine, do you?
I'd be all over Energy Suspension for a new set. (complete) My opinion would be that you got a bad batch, not just a bad bushing. I'd also ask them to pay for installation if it were me.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by John &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> what kind of lubricant does ES use?</TD></TR></TABLE>

marine waterproof grease....nothing special.

 

I coulda sworn I read somewhere that you had to be careful what kind of grease you use with poly bushings 'cause they may get "eaten up" by grease xxx. I wish I could remember the details.... And if you used the grease supplied by ES, I'd imagine that it would be safe.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Johnny Tran &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

marine waterproof grease....nothing special.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Thanks. I need to pick some of that up since the lithium grease I've been using fails its purpose after a few weeks... damn squeaking...

 

heh, and people still think poly bushings are the ****. stiffAr is bettAr. y0.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .RJ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">heh, and people still think poly bushings are the ****. stiffAr is bettAr. y0.</TD></TR></TABLE>

aluminum bushings 0wn j00 y0!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .RJ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">heh, and people still think poly bushings are the ****. stiffAr is bettAr. y0.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Well, I used the rubber bushings on my adj. sway bars, and it definitely lacked the turn-in response that was there with the poly bushings. My only complaint is the damn squeaking... Not to mention rubber bushings break down easily...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by John &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Not to mention rubber bushings break down easily...</TD></TR></TABLE>

Depending on the poly used, they can break down easier.

You say it feels better.... but did you put in fresh rubber bushes to compare the poly to?

 

I'm guessing they don't offer aluminum for the Z?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .RJ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You say it feels better.... but did you put in fresh rubber bushes to compare the poly to?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Rubber bushings that have 10K miles on it are still pretty damn new to me. That isn't going to provide a significant difference at all...

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Apocalypse &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'm guessing they don't offer aluminum for the Z?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Delrin bushings are available, not sure about aluminum. Regardless, for a street car, I want neither.

 

that sucks

but you shouldn't drive so close to someone to where you can't see whats in front of you.
not saying you were tailgating, but maybe you could of seen it coming if you were a little farther back.
Law states in SC you must be a car length away from the car in front of you for every 10 mph.
Like anyone does that I admit....I drive too closely also.

 

Does Delrin really make that much of a comfort difference to a daily driver? Having only driven rubber bushings with anything under 500# springs I don't have a basis for comparison.

 

are you comparing to stock rubber bushings John?

The cusco rubber bushings on my swaybar were every bit as stiff as the cars I have driven with whiteline poly bushings.

maybe you could find some aftermarket stiffer rubber for yours.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Apocalypse &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Does Delrin really make that much of a comfort difference to a daily driver? Having only driven rubber bushings with anything under 500# springs I don't have a basis for comparison.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I don't think it's really a comfort issue, rather a noise issue.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by elgorey &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">are you comparing to stock rubber bushings John?
The cusco rubber bushings on my swaybar were every bit as stiff as the cars I have driven with whiteline poly bushings.

maybe you could find some aftermarket stiffer rubber for yours.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yes, I was referring to the stock bushings, but I can't compare them to Cuscos.

I think we've hijacked this thread enough... I'd like to hear what ES has to say about the failed bushing...

 

instead of lube, have you tried wrapping the parts of the swaybar that are in contact with the bushings with Teflon tape? I have had good luck with that solution in places where it could be done.

HTH

 

Hmmm... I never thought of that. Would there be any fitment issues since the bushings are pretty well spec'd to the circumference of the sway bar? My first set of poly bushings really squeaked in the back, but that was b/c the mold was done on the sway bars prior to powder coating (I had a prototype set or sorts). The 2nd set fit around the rear sway bar much better, but is still conducive to squeaking...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by John &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I don't think it's really a comfort issue, rather a noise issue.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Well you clearly aren't getting that benefit now....

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Apocalypse &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Well you clearly aren't getting that benefit now....</TD></TR></TABLE>

I'm trying to work towards a solution, but a low cost one (ie &lt;$5). I like the teflon tape idea though...

 

Teflon tape is thin enough that I don't think it will make a big difference. It's cheap enough that you may want to give it a shot...

 

John i have 10 rolls of teflon tape if you want some.

 

well, i just got off the phone with jeff in research/development. he couldn't offer much of an explanation without seeing it. he suggested it may have been a heat issue, but i can't see how - especially since the other side is fine, as is the same bushing on the other lca. regardless, they're sending a replacement asap, free of charge.

the install is pretty straight forward, so i can't see how i may have messed it up. the stock bushings were pressed out by a napa store ( ) not burned out/hacked out. everything was lubed generously with es's own junk, and the parts went back together without much effort, and were torqued to spec.

i have used teflon tape with success in the past - comptech tells you to in their instructions for their sway/tie bar. the original application is still working fine, squeak free, 6 months later. on this particular piece, there would be no room for tape, it's a real snug fit.

as for heat, i am using a jdm itr header and smsp cat, which is slightly larger than stock pieces, but i can't believe that it's causing that much more heat to fry the bushing. why not the other then, and why not the other side (they're just as close).

it vexes me. i am terribly vexed.