I am gonna be running LS turbo in my civic the shop that i deal with is totally pro AEM for boost. they have told me that hondata is decent for boost but still not the best.

anyone have experience with either.........i plan on running about 18lbs eventually
price has no bearing on the choice i know aem is much more expensive but if its worth it thats what i will do

 

If you are not tuning it go with what your tuner is more familiar with.

 

I'm running the AEM and I did all of the tuning myself and the car is running like stock. In fact, I went out to lunch today and was thinking to myself how glad I am that I went with the AEM because the car runs beautifully.

I live just north of you in Dayton and you might be able to twist my arm to get together with you sometime to do some tuning. Just make sure that if you make the investment in the AEM to also get their wideband for another $350. It will be well worth it in the long run because the more you learn about the AEM and tuning your car it will allow you to double check everything as time goes on.

Also, go the the AEM website and check out the message boards there. Lots of great info !!

later....

 

I have hondata and mine runs like stock.

 

thats cool..........i don't know if u have heard of raceline but that is where i usually go to get my stuff and rick is damn good with the aem............but i would like to talk to u, u can reach me on aol at herde1724

 

I personally am going to go with the aem. i had debated this same question forever. finally decided for the aem though.

 

i smell group buy

 

Sounds like a group AEM tuning session for us Southern Ohio folks !!

Ghostvtec - Just IM me here on Honda-Tech.

 

Hondata is a better system if you're looking for good integration, and good run quality. The only reason I can think of to go AEM is if you need the extra features.



Modified by kpt4321 at 8:17 PM 1/5/2004

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by kpt4321 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Honda-Tech is a better system if you're looking for good integration, and good run quality. The only reason I can think of to go AEM is if you need the extra features.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

i think u meant hondata, not honda-tech

 

I couldn't agree with you more.... Hondata will give you good integration and run quality but AEM will give you excellent run quality and even easier integration.

Why spend about the same amount of money to buy a Hondata which has known flaws when you can get an AEM that you can tune yourself (providing you know your *** from a hole in the wall) to run like stock. NO tuner necessary. NO additional fees for changes to the map. Originally there were some problems with the AEM software but that is in the past and mine runs like a champ !!

My vote is for AEM all the way...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by brkrnu &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I couldn't agree with you more.... Hondata will give you good integration and run quality but AEM will give you excellent run quality and even easier integration.

Why spend about the same amount of money to buy a Hondata which has known flaws when you can get an AEM that you can tune yourself (providing you know your *** from a hole in the wall) to run like stock. NO tuner necessary. NO additional fees for changes to the map. Originally there were some problems with the AEM software but that is in the past and mine runs like a champ !!

My vote is for AEM all the way...</TD></TR></TABLE>

What software are u running?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mase &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
i think u meant hondata, not honda-tech </TD></TR></TABLE>

All fixed.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by brkrnu &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I couldn't agree with you more.... Hondata will give you good integration and run quality but AEM will give you excellent run quality and even easier integration.

Why spend about the same amount of money to buy a Hondata which has known flaws when you can get an AEM that you can tune yourself (providing you know your *** from a hole in the wall) to run like stock. NO tuner necessary. NO additional fees for changes to the map. Originally there were some problems with the AEM software but that is in the past and mine runs like a champ !!

My vote is for AEM all the way...</TD></TR></TABLE>

Well, if you say it like that.....

I don't agree that AEM has better integration. Hondata uses the stock ECU and the stock style of fuel and timing control, you simply can't beat that in terms of ease of programming and running well.

While Hondata may have small known bugs, AEM isn't perfect either!

If you by the tuning stuff for Hondata, you don't need a tuner either, and you can tune it yourself just like you would with the EMS. As a matter of fact, the EMS is the harder one to tune.

 

I seriously think this topic is posted once a week

 

Version 1.03

Any bugs that remain in this software are more like Windows issues and in my experience have never impacted the way that the car runs.

As you might have read on this board the Hondata has a lean condition in the 4000 RPM area that noone seems to be able to fix. On top of this flaw when you take your Hondata to the dyno it is tuned for WOT and not how you will drive the car everyday. When I asked the local dyno about how the car might run with Hondata under normal conditions and they said that would be more $$$$ to take it out on the street to do that and more $$$$$ when I go back to tell them that they need to fix something. It was then that I decided that AEM was the way to go and I have not been disappointed. I am not a professional tuner by any means but the software is intuitive enough for me to understand and I have done it all on my own. It is essential to get a wideband that interfaces with the AEM when you hook it up. If you are not willing to spend the extra money on the wideband then you might want to look elsewhere because it is the heart of the system in my opinion.

The latest thing I have been playing with is the 2 step launch. This is where you can put the pedal to the floor and the engine revs only as high as you set. In my case this is about 5000 RPM. So I can floor it, the engine builds boost at 5000 RPM while I wait to dump the clutch. Once the car is moving 10 mph it is able to rev freely. SO COOL.

This is on top of the datalogging, boost control and traction control that are all FREE with the AEM.

Pardon me but I gotta go for a drive !!

 

Everyone has their own opinion but if you add up all of the options to get Hondata to do what you say it is the same price as the AEM.

For the same price with the flexibility that AEM offers is why my vote is for the AEM.

Just my .02

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by brkrnu &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">On top of this flaw when you take your Hondata to the dyno it is tuned for WOT and not how you will drive the car everyday. When I asked the local dyno about how the car might run with Hondata under normal conditions and they said that would be more $$$$ to take it out on the street to do that and more $$$$$ when I go back to tell them that they need to fix something.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

This is not something that is unique to hondata! If you go and get an EMS dyno tuned, you will have the EXACT same thing happening! They will only tune it for WOT, and you will need to pay extra to have them tune it for cruise and such, or you'll have to do it yourself.

What you are trying to say, is that getting professionally dyno tuned is overrated, and not such a good bargain. To which I agree. Just stop making it sound like getting Hondata tuned is a waste of time, if you brought the EMS to a dyno tuner you'd have the exact same problems.

In my opinion, you shouldn't even think about a standalone if you can't at least tune a little bit by yourself, it's not worth the investment.


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
The latest thing I have been playing with is the 2 step launch. This is where you can put the pedal to the floor and the engine revs only as high as you set. In my case this is about 5000 RPM. So I can floor it, the engine builds boost at 5000 RPM while I wait to dump the clutch. Once the car is moving 10 mph it is able to rev freely. SO COOL.</TD></TR></TABLE>

DSM's have had that for about 10 years.

Good stuff.

Does the AEM have full throttle shift? In my opinion, NLTS (no lift to shift) is more worthwhile than full throttle launch, ESPECIALLY on a larger turbo.

 

Yes, the expense of tuning is not unique to one system. When I first went to get my car tuned, the certain "reputable" shop in my area told me they only do WOT tuning on the dyno and would not street tune my car. I let them do the WOT tuning, after which I realized that what they had done for about $400 was very little, and I found myself deleting what they had done (ACK) and starting over. Since then I got a wideband and now I do all my own tuning.

 

why do you need the ecu to have a full throttle shift function.... its kinda retarded and useless imo.

i have been using v1.03 sence before it was offically released and they have gotten all the bugs out as far as i know. i havent seen any sence they finalized the beta version.

a 2 step is nuthing special, but the ems's anti lag is. when setup properly we were getting over 1bar at the line with a sc61. you wont do that with a normal 2step.


kpt... what are you talking about stock style of fuel and timing control? thats a pretty retarded statement and means nuthing.

lets see... to tune hondata you have to have 3 programs running, you have to have a burner, an emulator and chips.. way to many places for the thing to fail. with the ems, you have 2 programs and nuthing to screw with, hook up the ems to the computer and tune, no takiing **** apart, pulling chips out, hooking up emulators, stopping the car to make changes, burning chips, then you gota put it all back together.... yeah, real integrated there buddy.

 

Most tuners that tune the AEM now will do a boost comp table which allows for a full range of RPMs and loads and most of them have a driveable map to start with anyway as AEM provides them with the EMS.

I am not complaining about tuners because I think they provide a valuable service but what I am saying is that for the same price I would rather be able to tune my box by myself without buying any additional hardware or paying someone to do it. The AEM system allows for tuning on the fly so normally I have someone drive my car while I am on the laptop and I can make the changes as I go. I always have fun when we get back in my driveway and I say that i'll turn off the car and with a press of a button it dies on demand.

Anyway, the AEM does have full throttle shifting as well as the two step. You can even integrate that with the traction control but I havent played with that yet.

I don't mean to argue about this point but I am just trying to give answers using my experience as a reference. Many people on this board just pick **** out of their *** and think it is the truth.

The bottom line is that both Hondata and AEM are excellent systems and will make your car run very well with good reliability. Take your pick ...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JDogg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">why do you need the ecu to have a full throttle shift function.... its kinda retarded and useless imo.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I know guys who pick up several MPH when using this function.

Take a datalog of a car with a large turbo at the track, and watch the manifold pressure between shifts. Every time you close the throtle plate, the boost falls off, and the compressor wheel speed drops. When you get into the next gear and reengage the clutch, you have to build boost all over again.

Try to get a ride in a car with this feature, it's sick. Shifts are smoother and faster, and power comes back on more quickly.


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
a 2 step is nuthing special, but the ems's anti lag is. when setup properly we were getting over 1bar at the line with a sc61. you wont do that with a normal 2step.</TD></TR></TABLE>

2 Step is "somthin special," it's sick. Anti-lag is just as cool, or cooler, I agree.

On the other hand, do you want 1 bar of boost in first gear in a FWD car?

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
kpt... what are you talking about stock style of fuel and timing control? thats a pretty retarded statement and means nuthing.</TD></TR></TABLE>

You're pretty retarted.

What I meant is that, with a system like Hondata, you have the ability to simply edit the fuel and timing maps that are already set up within the ECU. You still are able to retain full control over everything, and you don't have to mess with the one million other things that the ECU also controls.

You change the fuel and timing maps to suit your purposes, and ECU looks up the new values and doesn't even notice the difference, and the car runs like stock without much trouble.

You can DEFINATELY get an EMS car to run just as well, it just takes more time and more tinkering. There are situations where the EMS IS the best option, I agree with that. I just don't think it's the best option all of the time.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
lets see... to tune hondata you have to have 3 programs running, you have to have a burner, an emulator and chips.. way to many places for the thing to fail. with the ems, you have 2 programs and nuthing to screw with, hook up the ems to the computer and tune, no takiing **** apart, pulling chips out, hooking up emulators, stopping the car to make changes, burning chips, then you gota put it all back together.... yeah, real integrated there buddy.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

AEM isn't exactly "plug in and drive" either there. Buddy.

While a Hondata user has to deal with burning and switching chips, you're busy programming stupid **** like knock sensitivity tables and idle control tables. Both programs have their downsides, that's all I am trying to say.

 

Hey JDogg !!

Now this is one **** that knows his AEM **** and he is one of the key people that helps people out on the AEM site.

Many thanks !!!!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by brkrnu &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Anyway, the AEM does have full throttle shifting as well as the two step. You can even integrate that with the traction control but I havent played with that yet.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Sweet! Try it out, it's kickass. Just don't use it on the 1-2 shift.


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I don't mean to argue about this point but I am just trying to give answers using my experience as a reference. Many people on this board just pick **** out of their *** and think it is the truth.</TD></TR></TABLE>


I couldn't agree with you more. I think that a lot of people just echo what they have heard or read, which is very frustrating. Your point of very is very legitimate, I just want to present an alternative so this whole thread isn't about how AEM is always better than Hondata, and how nobody should buy the latter.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
The bottom line is that both Hondata and AEM are excellent systems and will make your car run very well with good reliability. Take your pick ...</TD></TR></TABLE>

Survey says.... BINGO! Well said.

 

you dont need a computer to full throttle shift. its easy, leave the gas on teh floor. thats what they make revlimiters for

there are many many things that hondata cant do that are needed for a car to run consistent with boost and big turbo's. not only that but you cant tune the knock table with hondata. some engines are built loose and have alot of noise just because of the way they are built. in those engines hondata would see knock where its just engine noise. i can tune so that the fuel is right for all situations, even ones that i will never see. such as an over boost situation. with a 5bar map sensor i can have a car tuned to 60psi. we tune it for one boost level and its done for all boost levels. we can do individual cylinder fuel and ign trims as well as tune the injector advance and many other things hondata cant do. people ask do they need this..... if you want your car running the best it can then you need to tune all this.

hondata is more of a bandaid to me. there are so many things that are crutial to getting a car running right that you just cant tune.

i can be done with the average car in about 3-4 hours and have it running like stock.

either way... if you are not tuning it yourself use what the tuner knows. if you are tuning it yourself aem ems all the way

not to mention that we are now offering a coil on plug setup that gets rid of the distributed spark and gives the ems another level of control over the ignition.