Do you think that we will ever see a Honda WRC car? WRC is my favorite racing and as i sit here watching Speed's WRC year in review i ponder if Honda could be competitve in the series. They would have to build or buy a AWD system but i believe the EP3 could be the car for the series.

Thats it i am getting honda of U.K on the horn right now

 

Honda had a car in the Paris Dakar rally

 

The EP3 has a problem in street touring autox due to a high center of gravity. The Focus WRC car had the same problem until Ford did a huge re-design of the race car part way through the season.

Honda seems to be putting most of their racing effort into engines for open wheel racing. Their F1 effort seems poor by their standards. Budget limitations? Lack of priority from upstairs? Who knows.

Given the budget to run WRC competatively, they probably would have to drop out of F1 first. Plus the fact that Honda always does their own work instead of contracting outside companies then putting their name on it means they would have to free up a lot of people in the company.

Does WRC get the Honda name out where they want to have it seen? Turbo 2L with AWD does not reflect any of Honda's line of cars. On the other hand, do anyone other than Subaru and Mitsu make the cars that the WRC cars are based on? What sort of advertising tie-in is used in Europe for the cars that don't have a production version with 2L turbo and AWD?

Factory racing=advertising. Can they get more advertising value from racing than other mediums or reach customers they otherwise miss or convince people to buy their cars by racing? If the answer is yes, then maybe they will go racing. I'd love to see it, but don't expect to.

 

Where it seems like they could really shine is the JWRC - Junior World Rally Championship. Drivers are age-restricted (to 28, I think?) and the cars are 2wd, 1.6 liter kit cars. Take a look at http://www.jwrc.com/ for more...

Fiat Punto



Pugeot 206



VW Polo



Opel Corsa



K

 

I doubt we ever will, as stated above, Honda is too occupied with F1. I also agree a EP3 Civic would be a good contender, with reconstruction of course. What would be cooler that a mass produced Civic SI WRC Edition? Honda's done AWD in the 80s and now they need to bring it back. It's not cost effective though, and it wouldn't be in ther best interest for Honda as a corporatiom

 

Honda had record profits last year. Its not money they are lacking.

 

The EP3 doesnt have any higher Cg than the other current WRC cars, and comparitavely to F1, running WRC is pocket change.

I do agree with Kirk though that Super1600 is a more appropriate venue for Honda.
Maybe with some success there, they could then develop an AWD system and compete with the big dogs in WRC

 

Correction, American Honda had record profits, Honda of Japan the opposite....

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mohudsolo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">On the other hand, do anyone other than Subaru and Mitsu make the cars that the WRC cars are based on? What sort of advertising tie-in is used in Europe for the cars that don't have a production version with 2L turbo and AWD?

</TD></TR></TABLE>

actually, yes.. the ford focus is made in a streetable AWD turbo version.. it's called the RS.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by E-AT_me &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

actually, yes.. the ford focus is made in a streetable AWD turbo version.. it's called the RS.</TD></TR></TABLE>
nope. The Focus RS is FWD
http://www.supercarsite.net/focus_rs.htm

 

it was explained to me that the japanese manufacturers have an understanding or 'verbal agreement' regarding what form of competition they will compete in.

i.e.. subaru/mitsubishi in wrc and honda/toyota in f1

the speed channel wrc marathon yesterday was awesome.

 

Let's also not fall into the VW Vortex trap of assuming that all that is necessary to build a WRC car is a blown AWD car like the new Golf that VW has been threatening to bring to the US for the last couple years. A WRC car is damn near as specialized and hand-built as an F1 car, albeit inside something approximating a standard bodyshell.

The whole point of the WRC rules is to allow manufacturers to compete in top-level rallying without the huge expense of manufacturing and homologating series-produced AWD turbocars.

K

 

It's not a wrc car but it's a offical rally car.



check out more on it at http://www.mattjohnstonrally.com

 

The Cosworth Focus is the turbo, AWD street version of the WRC focus.
Honda lacks a suitable platform, money and experience. Serious rally cars don't employ double wishbone suspension, due to it bending and breaking easily. Honda also lacks knowledge of turbocharged engines. Perhaps when WRC goes (if it does) to 2.5 liter NA motors, Honda could stand a chance. Given their F1 track record, I think they should stick to motorcycles, or invest more time and money into their current programs.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by D-cell &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The Cosworth Focus is the turbo, AWD street version of the WRC focus. </TD></TR></TABLE>
It would be, if it existed

Was only a concept car back in 99, and was never produced.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by D-cell &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Honda also lacks knowledge of turbocharged engines. </TD></TR></TABLE>

CART? 3.65L Turbo V8..........

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by D-cell &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Honda also lacks knowledge of turbocharged engines.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Or the Fomula one engines of the late 80's. They won 15 of 16 races. I'm pretty sure they know how to build turbos, and damn good ones at that.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by D-cell &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Given their F1 track record, I think they should stick to motorcycles, or invest more time and money into their current programs.</TD></TR></TABLE>

See above... Only in the last few years have they been struggling, they dominated in the late 80s.

 

Old Honda Turbo offerings:
http://asia.vtec.net/topics/turbohonda.html

Here's the current Honda turbo offering:
http://asia.vtec.net/article/HondaZ/index.html

I saw a picture once of a 80's or 90's AWD Deisel Civic or Accord, I think it wa a Malaysian or Italian model.

 

Honda is also selling a new diesel accord in europe......

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/?...40594

 

Actually honda continues with there AWD cars abroad at one point even the venerable ZC was so equipped however it's also similar to the current and not trmendously robust CRV drietrain. A CTR Based WRC car is certainly a viable option as cars like the Peguet and Citroen have shown.

 

elgorey the cosworth focus is the AWD boosted focus, few were made, like the cosworth RS200 and the Sierra RS cosworth. i know my dad is a ford nut he has almost everything from a Sierra RS(simply built as a production model to be allowed to compete in other forms of racing).... not to mention that honda has built AWD based cars consistently, especially in malaysia where 92-95 civics were AWD sedans.

 

......not to mention a few years ago, a guy won the pikes peak hill climb in a SC EG. he built it from taking the bolt-ons off his gs-r and dropping it in the hatch.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by snowboarderguy44 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">elgorey the cosworth focus is the AWD boosted focus, few were made, like the cosworth RS200 and the Sierra RS cosworth. </TD></TR></TABLE>
I am very familiar with the Escort and Sierra cozzie.
Unfortunately there really is no Focus Cosworth. It doesnt exist. It was a prototype concept car back in 99 but was never built.
From the original press release
For now, the Ford Cosworth Focus is a tantalising concept vehicle only. Cosworth Racing and its parent company are quick to point out that there are no immediate production plans for this vehicle
click around on this site for more info (or if you dont believe me )
http://bbs.ffcosworth.co.uk/ubbthreads.php

 

That was kind of the point I was trying to make. The Focus RS is a turbo 2l but front drive only, VW just introduced the new A5 chassis Golf with a 2l turbo but has not combined their turbo 4 with awd in any market and the Skoda, what's up with that, does not offer it either. I don't know how the Frenchie cars are offered, but I think they only do front drive on production cars.

Basically most of the WRC cars are not based on a production model. So I guess that would not be a reason for Honda to not get into it either. But, I don't think that racing a production based car that they don't actually make is how Honda has generally done things. If Honda does ever enter, maybe that will mean a turbo awd production car.

 

Guys, whether a company makes a production 2liter, turbo, awd car doesnt matter one bit... Back in the day it did, not, who cares. It is only for marketing reasons.

Before the WRC Car regulations were introduced, each team had to make 2000 copies of the car that their rally car would be based on. This is where we got the WRX and the Evo from..

Around 1998, the FIA decided to introduce the WRC regulations, now teams only have to make 20 copies of the car.

This was done to allow new teams to enter, without having to build tons of cars that may, or may not make a profit for them.. Because of these regs, we have seen Hyundai, Citroen, Peugeot, Seat, Skoda and now possibly Renault enter the fray..

I think alot of people seem to underestimate what is inside a world rally car. Probably because it is based on a road car shell. Like Kirk mentioned above, the ONLY parts that are carried over from the road car, in a modern WRC car are:

The Shell
The rear window (sometimes)
Parts of the dash
The blinkers
The Wiper stalk

Thats about it. All the teams have a custom WRC specific AWD system. None of the current teams use a road car system, or anything close to it. The differentials in the top cars are all entirely active, controlled by computers and hydraulics... As are the transmission's.. Complete active. They sense the yaw, pitch, speed, revs etc... and automatically make adjustments to the diffs and trans.

A modern WRC gearbox costs roughly $120,000USD... There is no similarity to a road car.

Also, the only thing on the engine that HAS to be from a road car is the block.... Thats it. It can even be tilted in the engine bay up to 30degrees.

Also note, most of the teams, (except Peugeot/Citroen) are not "in-house" factory teams. Ford is run by the M-sport team, Subaru by Prodive, Bozian, etc....

The WRC effort is outsourced, basically Team A gets a 60million dollar check from Company B, and 20 white shells. Team A then engineers, prepares and services the cars. With some teams, the MFGR actually does very little.

So basically, what I'm sayin, is that if Honda wanted too, they could have a WRC car. The Civic Type R shell, is about the perfect size. All they would need is the following:

Desire to do so
Between 40-60million
A suitable shell
A 2.0 liter block


They just choose not too.


If anyone is interested ALL of the reg's for any FIA car (including wrc) are available on the fia's site. http://www.fia.com