whats the better header for a spec b/c setup; spoon or toda?

 

I've been searching far and wide for the answer to this too. I've posted up a couple of questions (in different guises to prevent the "please do a search" response) regarding this and the verdict is inconclusive. Basically, there's not enough hard facts, namely dyno plots, to answer this effectively...unless some people have been holding out...

 

Depends on what you're gonna do with it.
Daily driver with a bite,
or track,
or strip,
or Auto-X,
or a combo of a few or even all.

I don't have your answer but you need to clarify. It all depends.

Good luck,

A.

 

damnit, stop holding out on us. on a side note, are spoon cams todas? I rmember reading somewhere that spoon used todas.

 

Well, my buddy is planning on getting spoon so maybe we'll dyno one then the other on his aem cai equipped car... Then we'll see... maybe we'll do it on my toda b car too for comparison too...

Until then, there are no straight-up comparisons...

 

ill take daily driver with a bite, and track, and autox.

 

Here's my 2 cents.....In my opinion - I doubt there would be much difference between the two. The TODA is a two piece design so when you prang it on the ground (as I have done with my former Mugen 4-1 and now my Spoon 4-2-1) you may be able to fix it more easily. BTW my car is not lowered a ton (maybe an inch and a half). I think that AJPwr said the TODA header is outsourced to another company for manufacturing (whose name escapes me right now).

Subjectively I like my Spoon 4-2-1 better than the Mugen 4-1 even though the build quality of the Mugen was better. I sense more torque in the midrange which works well with the Spec B's. I just recently put in Endyn pistons and have not yet dynoed the car fully.

 

A conclusive answer to this is very difficult but I'd bet that most will say the Spoon piece, and that is an unbiased opinion, IMHO.

I have a buddy with a wickedly setup Civic Type-R transplant and we were planning on a dyno day. The only resason this is important is that we BOTH have Spoon headers but he has the Toda B's and the header, so He could answer your post with his plot. Sorry I don't know when it will happen, we just had to cancel Yesterday, but, are planning on rescheduling soon. I'll be sure to have Rodney post his results.

Good luck again,

A.

 

ditto.

They are both quality pieces.

Bottom line: you can't go wrong with either one...

 

Visually, it seems like the Spoon header changes from the 4 to the 2 much closer to the collector than the Toda header does. Does anybody know how this difference affects anything?

 

Just wait until Tuan (Michael Delaney) gets on here and starts in with his graphs... Then you'll see the difference.

But basically, they come off the head and end in a 2.5" collector in the same place. They can't be that much different in terms of output... Also remember that spoon makes a 4-2-1 and 4-1, whereas the toda is just 4-2-1. So which are we comparing here?

And yes, there are many who claim toda makes spoon's cams, cam gears, etc. I suppose it's possible that they do - heck, they may even have their headers made in the same place... And we know that toda works with mugen and others on projects... But do we have proof? No. They just have very similar products... almost TOO similar.

 

ewww..what about JDM 4-1, what about JDM 4-1??? huh huh???

Just teasing....Spoon and Toda both nice...get which ever one you can get
for the best deal.

 

Actually Spoon only makes the one header now. 4-2-1. Toda does indeed make the cams and cam gears for Spoon. The cams are Spoon specs though. Similar to Spec A's but not the same.

 

This is the only thing I can offer, Toda B dyno with JDM Mugen header compared to Toda C dyno with JDM Toda header. B's are in red, C's in blue.

Exact same dyno, ECU program, etc. except for the date/time/temp/baro pressure, Toda C cams and Toda Header. Both plots are only comparable to VTEC point because both Toda B/C have same primaries. VTEC w/B's is 7000, VTEC w/C's is 7400.



This should help a little with the Toda header question, sorry can't help with the Spoon header question.


[Modified by TodaSi, 2:53 AM 9/26/2001]

 

Actually they are Not Made by Toda they are Made By Honda For Spoon to Spoons Specs

PS My vote goes with the Spoon 4-2-1