The thread about the truck bed cover got me thinking and I didn't want to steal his thread.

I am going through major tow vehicle changes. Additionally, I am trying to thin the herd of seven cars that I have (from daily drivers to life projects) and try to simply and replace quantity with quality. I don't need to keep insurance on 4 cars but only have two driven a day. I likely will not end up the pickup route as it needs to be more family sedan functional as well. Sounds like it is SUV time but I so am doing a lot of consideration on which way to go and have a lot more to do.

My wife was until recently a licensed SCCA club racer (with a couple of wins I might add) and quite a car snob like me and she isn't too keen on flogging a Yukon/Tahoe around as a daily driver. What ever we do get, it is going to have to pass a certain muster and is like destined for performance upgrades but on a family budget. I am basically looking in the nicer end of the used SUV market, the new prices are just too deep for the priviledge for me.

Anyone else shopping lately who wants to compare notes? Tow ratings, gas mileage, performing livability.

 

Lee, I assume you want something bigger than the Yukon/Tahoe? If not, on a similar size (I think), I just sold my EB Expedition 5.4L and really felt bad seeing it go. It was extremely easy to drive and towed awesome (usually around 2000+1800+(8*25)+50 : trailer, about 300# in the back). I think I actually lost cubic storage going to the 250 but I didn't pack to the roof that often to begin with. Personally, I would have liked to have found a 7.3L Excursion but man alive they are spensif when you find 'em. FWIW

 

We were thinking that we'd like to trim it to Yukon/Tahoe size and not to full Suburban size. We'd like to go 4wd or AWD as well we think as the V10 Ram Extended was not. The Ram just didn't have the needed functionality nor the intertior space for the family of 3. We test drove the Yukon but it would need lots of suspension upgrades to be livable. For us, the tall, short wheelbase was just to rocking and pitching constantly. She is not keen on a Chevy daily driver.

Tracy has been thinking about finding a used BMW X5 which at the vicinity of $30K is at the top of the current range. I posted to http://www.bimmerforums.com for towing input there. That would be cool but maybe a bit fragile and expensive to maintain. Her father had an EB Exploder V8 with some performance upgrades that was OK with her but I didn't care much for it and would like more size. I had basically heard "stay away" on Expeditions but maybe we should investigate some packages. The recent domestics seem really common as lease returns having taken a fair amount of price depreciation so some searching should find a good example at an appropriate price.

 

Oh so you are looking for SUV types. What about the Toreaug (sp?), not sure on the wheelbase but the towing cap is pretty large isn't it? I think the towing capacity on my Expedition was 7200. As for staying away from them, it could be resale alone - I was shocked at how much mine fell in value. They are also EVERYWHERE. But if you do find some information against them, I'd be interested (as I typically suggest it as a viable option).

 

The new nissan suv can tow 9000+ lbs.... good power, and had gotten good mag reviews so far. I think its the 'armada'.

 

First model year though, destined for minor problemos.

 

warrantee?

 

Time is money.

And wtf is a "warrantee"?

 

First model year or not, I would buy the Pathfinder Armada.

I don't think the short wheelbase of the X5 ot Toureg will be fun for towing (no matter what they claim the capacities are).

For what it's worth, I looked at the X5 years ago (considering it as a tow vehicle) and was very disappointed with the amount of cargo space (basically none - my Celica has more), the Toureg isn't much better (but it's a little better).

What good is a sport-ute if you can't even get a 5' long fishing pole in it without sticking it into the passenger area?

Scott

 

Not to flog, but how about the higher end Durango. My son and his wife take 3 children in it on very long (for kids) trips. Think in terms of the stuff you have to pack in the vehicle. I'm not sure what a Suburban (bus <G&gt would do for you by comparison. If you plan to continue to pull the big trailer-then a conventional SUV is not what you need. I will agree that an off-lease Expedition would be a reasonable choice. You are also right in assuming that some upgrades would probably be involved chassis wise.
Then there are Quad Cab type shortbed trucks that might do the job for you.

The most important thing I learned buying the truck is to NOT use the stated towing capacity as it is. Our Dakota w/4.7L tows the race trailer perfectly. The only thing that I have found is it runs a bit slow on some hills. The biggest problem is the rated capacity. They really mean the GROSS of the truck-loaded plus the actual tongue weight. A new set of stock springs later (under warranty) we now have Timbren helpers as well. I do not plan to change the maps of the engine at this point. (Some of the programs actually require you to use a higher grade of fuel.)

Have fun searching for the right vehicle.
Happy New Year

 

Been wrestling with this recently too. As an autocrosser, there is the big social component of the activity, and the family likes to come too. That means 4 of us, plus the dog. A couple of years ago bought the RV, thinking it would be an end-all, getting both a big-block dually tow vehicle besides all the comforts of home in one package, for a very reasonable price used. To that end it’s been great, but is just too much work to maintain and get packed and ready to go, let alone the car stuff and hitching the trailer. To get the motorhome packed, trailer hitched and car loaded, is a 1 ½ hour minimum effort. Then the same amount of time to unpack when I get home. Too much work. The Mrs. and I made the decision a few days ago it will be put up for sale in a few weeks after New Year’s…..

The additional complication I have is preparedcivic junior has a kart he will be running at most Solo II events I go to starting mid summer. I have to figure out how to get a car, a kart, 2 adults, 2 kids, and a 70lb German Shepard around. A little utility trailer would be the easy answer for kart and tires, but the 4 of us barely fit into the Celica now, besides the dog and any luggage we’d need for bigger 2 day events. I’m leaning towards parking the stock car and dragging my Civic out more, putting both that and the kart in a enclosed trailer, which also frees up half my garage to park the other daily driver in there. The only problem is pulling the enclosed with the other tow vehicle I’ve got, a 99 Exploder 4 door, bought new, only has 50k on it, and at least I was smart enough to get it with the 5.0, so while it ain’t no ‘Burb or Excursion, it is at least as capable as any mid-size tow vehicle around. It has pulled the Toyota on my open trailer, about 2k lbs empty, with a big 4x6 box on the front, as fast as I’ve cared to go.

Coming to the realization the RV was going to go, and thinking I might need more truck than the one I’ve got, I went SUV window shopping a few times in the last month. Drove an Excursion. One word: big. And heavy. The 29’ motorhome almost feels lighter on its feet. Reasonable in price only compared to Surburbans, which I like the best but really dear for my wallet. What has caught my eye recently is the new ’04 Durango. 335hp Hemi, and it actually Tahoe/Yukon/Expedition sized, but priced more like the smaller ones. Still a lot of money. The paid for low mileage Exploder looks better every day.

Soooooo, my current thinking at the moment, since I don’t have a really large car to schlep around, is to buy myself a low profile enclosed, putting the kart on a home built rack/stand at the front with the nose of the car underneath. An 8x16, with a 7’ exterior height would work for size weight and capacity all around, with the truck I have now, at least for a year or two, then figure out what SUV to buy, probably either a Suburban or Durango. A pick-up would do the job better and cheaper, but I drove one daily for 10 years, and that was enough. The Mrs. won’t even consider one, and I don’t blame her.

Unlike cars, there really isn’t a lot of choice in trucks.

 

Unfortunately the upperclassmen like Cayenne and lesser brother Touareg are just too expensive for lesser budgets and interesting things like the Armada are too new to have taken the depreciation hit to get into my price range. My dad looked at Armada before buying my used Ram from me at 1/4 the price. I just don't see paying the new prices to lose 1/4 to 1/2 book value in several years and 50,000-70,000 miles. That is why I am looking for the better used stuff I think.

The Yukon/Tahoe was interesting as it had well over 1000 extra lbs. tow capacity that the Expedition. On the other hand, it looks like my wife has sold her horse so we we won't be needing really bigger capacity for the foreseeable future. The 13,500 capacity on the Ram was nice, if you needed to move it then just hitch it up. Now we won't need as much but need a better daily vehicle in return.

 

Interesting to see that there are lots of us doing similar considerations although there may be some variation in budget.

I had heard early mumblings that the new Dakota was supposed to be good but again has a "new" pricetag. The older Dakota might be interesting but it would need to be pretty behaved and refinable.

 

How about a crew cab truck? That's the route I went. Lots of interior room and seating for 5, plus you get the bed out back to throw you junk into. I was unhappy with my SUV for towing because I was always worried that my track stuff would scratch the interior panels. In my truck, I got the bed coated with LineX and can throw anyting in there now.

 

I just got a F250 7.3L Turbo Diesel ext cab. Man that is the only way to tow. I think it would pulled a house off its foundation. Would prolly be a little tight in ext cab form but 4 door would be roomy. But then again it is a pickup not a SUV. But man mountains are no prob and with 16mpg, gosh I love my truck. And plenty of upgrades for the 7.3L just tuning can yield 40-100+ hp and even more trq. I know its not a SUV but I figured I put the bug out there

 

What about the crew cap pickups with the extra short box? A friend tows with an extended cab Dakota with 4.7 and has been very happy with it. The crew cab with the little box is about the same size. Alternatively the Explorer was re-designed a few years ago with the independant rear suspension that gives better interior room and a better ride/handling compromise. They also have the crew cab short box pickup version of that I think.

What about the Chevy Caprice or Impala SS? 260hp LT1 will haul a trailer rather well and the interior is huge.

 

i know you're prob not interested in a new SUV, but the new dodge durango looks like a solid choice. stylish, hemi power, and bigger than a exploder but smaller than a tahoe...

8700 lb towing capacity, 5100 lb CW, 335 hp/375 lb-ft 5.7L hemi, or 230 hp 290 lbft magnum v8.

4x4 prices in at 31950. then again the older model year durangos should be cheaper now.

personally if i were shopping for a tow vehicle i'd look at the crew cab pickups, maybe the tundra, F150, or the new nissan...

 

Lee,

I towed a car with the brand new '03 Expidition and couldn't believe how good it was. Way better than my (3/4 ton, 454 big block) Suburban. The owner had just traded in a 99 Expy for it and said it was just about as good.

 

Somehow in 2003 I managed to tow for 10 races in an old 1990 Chevy Cheyenne with over 250,000 miles on the odo. Blown shocks, shitty brakes, and no damn air conditioning. My usual trip was 4-4.5 hours round trip. The longest trip being 10 hours round trip (to Kansas in 107 degree weather, ahh MAN that sucked).

My daily driver is the Hype-aarRR, and I don't see myself parting with it any time soon. So it's not feasible to afford a pimpy SUV while keeping the R (payment + insurance = ouchy), so the best I can hope for in 2004 is to get some new shocks and brakes for the Cheyenne and maybe get the AC working. Because every time I think about spending money on a tow-vehicle, I realize that's just money that cuts into the race budget!

you guys are spoiled

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by uncleben &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Somehow in 2003 I managed to tow for 10 races in an old 1990 Chevy Cheyenne with over 250,000 miles on the odo. ...

... Because every time I think about spending money on a tow-vehicle, I realize that's just money that cuts into the race budget!

you guys are spoiled </TD></TR></TABLE>

My last tow vehicle before the Ram was an '87 GMC 1 ton window van with peeling paint that I bought at auction. We made curtains for the windows and put a futon bed in the back for a mini-motorhome function for the wife and I. Before that, I towed with a rough '69 Buick Grand Sportwagon with the windows in the roof and the woody wagon decal peeled off and a built-up Chevy small block that finally cracked in half from the trailer abuse.

Don't tell me I'm spoiled, I have just paid my dues and have earned my way up to a better tow rig. With the responsibility of a family and other daily functions that a family man must live with, many vehicles that were acceptable for just one or two of us now no longer will fit the bill, especially if she has to drive it most days of the week.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by CRX Lee &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">We made curtains for the windows and put a futon bed in the back for a mini-motorhome function for the wife and I. Before that, I towed with a rough '69 Buick Grand Sportwagon with the windows in the roof and the woody wagon decal peeled off and a built-up Chevy small block that finally cracked in half from the trailer abuse.</TD></TR></TABLE>

dude- you got me there. lol, that's awesome!
okay, Lee is definitely not spoiled, heh

-Ben, who needs to pay his dues!

 

Lee, go drive the new Hemi Durango. Like someone else said, that might be the best of both worlds for you. If you follow the truck forums, the Hemi Dodge guys absolutely LOVE their trucks. The motors, so far, have performed well with no major glitches to speak of.

FWIW, My F-350 crew cab short bed diesel has TONS of interior room, and provides nothing short of Cadilac comfort inside.

 

Someone please convince Toyota to build a diesel-powered Land Cruiser. Then CRXLee will be set.

Has Dodge fixed their various transmission problems? My uncle went through a Dodge V8 truck and a V8 Durango, both of which went through three transmissions before he traded them in.
-Adam

 

We discussed the options more today and the used X5 looks like not a good idea. The new Hemi Durango could be OK but they'd need to be near 0% financing to make a new vehicle fit the price range.

Having done the big cab pickup truck route with the extended cab Dodge and plenty of mileage in KONI's F250 Superduty Powerstroke crew cab, by the time the big trucks get the cab room, the wheelbases and phyical size make garaging and normal daily city use more of a challenge so I think the SUV works better for us than another truck. We test fitted a Yukon in the garage just fine but the Dodge Ram sat outside all but one night that it blocked most of the interior of my walkout basement garage.

Looks like we'll do some test driving of the used Expeditions, the newer larger body Exploder V8s with the IRS rear suspension, the new Hemi Durango and maybe a recent but used Durango.

 

I am not a towing expert, but I tow very, very well with my '98 V6 5-speed Tacoma Xtra-cab. My usual towing load is an ITR (2500lbs), trailer (1500lbs), stuff (300lbs+). All this is near the 5000lb tow limit. The only modification I did was add an extra leaf spring in the rear.

I have no problems with towing up hills in Pennsylvania or Virginia. I just downshift. The slowest I have ever went up hill was about 50mph in 3rd gear. I usually cruise comfortable on flats at 70-90mph and up hills at 60mph+. I like the truck because it is very reliable, good as a daily (if needed), long wheelbase so towing is nice, etc. etc. I have a cap over the pick up bed and I will be sleeping in the pickup bed for races.

I only mention this is because unless you plan on towing a heavy car or lots of equipment, I haven't seen the need for all of the power. You will be very surprised at how well the Tacoma does at towing 4500lbs. But, if you plan on towing 6000+ lbs, then obviously a V8 and bigger truck is needed.