I am wondering why it is not more common on our cars for people to run stiffer springs up front but to use no bar.

It seems that it would be a more effective way to keep the inside front planted, but then again I don't know anything.

can anyone sum it up for me?

 

Some people do just that, but I'm not one of them. If I had the cash I would try it both ways and tell you how the car felt and wich way I liked better..... but I don't

 

The only reason I can think of for the medium/medium combo is streetability.

Springs change ride quality, sway bars do not. If there is another good reason, I'd love to hear it.

 

What do you mean by ``our cars``? There is a big difference between a CRX,EF/EG and an Integra, Prelude, EP3, etc.

I don't see any way you can run w/o a sway bar on the bigger cars. On the smallers ones, with proper setup, you can run w/o a front bar.

 

Corey runs his prelude without a front bar and seems to do fine. But I think his front spring rates are 1,000 lbs/inch, and stiffer yet in the back.

The question is if he were to put the front bar back in and run 700ish spring rates in the front what would the overall effects be? ....and I for one could not tell ya. With the front sway bar, the effective spring rate when in a turn might be over 1,000lbs on the front outside even with the 700's. Then you also off load the inside a bit with a sway bar, so what will this do to overall turn speed for your car? Try it out, get some lap times, then let me know

 

I guess the only real answer is try it and see what happens...

 

I use 400 lbs on the front and 600 lbs on the rear, stock front and rear bars. I originally tried using an aftermarket 3/4" sway bar, but couldn't keep the rear from coming out (and it did it very quickly without much turn in). After spinning a few times, I put the stock bar back in and it works great.

I'm sure I could have also "corrected" it by changing the spring rates.

 

In general, not Honda specific. Some other things to consider.

In straight line braking a sway bar has no effect on anti-dive, so a heavy springed car would have more anti-dive than a light springed car. If you carry your braking iinto a turn the swaybar will then effect the anti-dive characteristics of the car as well as anti-roll.

Sway bars are typically easier to "tune" at the track than changing spring rates.

Swaybars come in more colors and are easier to wax Yo.....

 

I've also heard that the generally accepted practice is to "balance" the car with the spring rates, and then fine tune with the sway bars. That's where I'm headed right now. I've been steadily going softer in the front and stiffer in the rear, all the whille keeping the rear bar set on the middle setting. When the car is ideally balanced, I'll be able to change the balance more effectively with the sway bar and the tire pressures.

 

how much variation is there typically between the stiffest and softest setting on an aftermarket sway bar?

 

hmm, I'm deciding between 450F/400R and 450F/450R for my Accord, and I also plan to get Eibach front+rear sways.

Which do you think I should go with? If i get the Eibach sways with 450 all around, would it be safe on the street? (understeer).

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by LX4CYL &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">hmm, I'm deciding between 450F/400R and 450F/450R for my Accord</TD></TR></TABLE>

Didnt we already go over this? Spring rates arent set in stone anyways. They're cheap and easy to play with.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Which do you think I should go with? If i get the Eibach sways with 450 all around, would it be safe on the street? (understeer).</TD></TR></TABLE>

If you're driving fast enough on the street that this is a concern for you, then you've got a problem.

I would say 600# where things start to get really uncomfortable on the street but thats just me. Some might say 400# is too much and others can probably tolerate 800# or more.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .RJ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Didnt we already go over this? Spring rates arent set in stone anyways. They're cheap and easy to play with.</TD></TR></TABLE>

well, yes, but I was more concerned with the Konis needing to be re-valved. Now I'm just wondering about oversteer/understeer. I guess I'll try out 450F/400R first...

 

jaker is correct you set the car up with whatever spring rates you decide on. the sway bar is used to balance the car. you can adjust over/understeer with swaybars because they reduce grip. if you tighten up the rear sway bar or use a larger bar you will be reducing understeer. if you do the same thing to the front you will increase understeer.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nota944mechanic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">if you tighten up the rear sway bar or use a larger bar you will be reducing understeer. if you do the same thing to the front you will increase understeer.</TD></TR></TABLE>

this should really read "if you tighten up the rear sway bar or use a larger bar you might reduce understeer. if you do the same thing to the front you might increase understeer." there is a lot more to understeer/oversteer then which end has the stiffer spring or swaybar.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nota944mechanic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">you can adjust over/understeer with swaybars because they reduce grip</TD></TR></TABLE>
technically this is incorrect and definitely misleading. swaybars don't reduce grip, they help distribute weight transfer between the front and rear axle. increasing the weight transfer at an axle pair reduces the grip that the axle pair can generate. i'm sure this is what you meant, this is just to clarify for others that may still be learning.

nate