I could care less about opening temp but I am interested if they flow better (ie smaller pressure drop across the T-stat.) I can't find any pertaining info (all i get is that they run colder [duh!]) ....

anyone know for sure?

Matt

 

matt just drill a couple holes in ur stock one

 

I'm worried that would only increase the maximum flow rate, but not reduce the pressure drop by too much...although it's definitely a choice I am leaning to for now (assuming I need higher cooling capacity, so far it's fine)

 

well it seems to me that
if you have more flow
there should be less resistance
so there should be less of a pressure drop

oh and a bottle of water wetter works wonders

also have you considered making the A/C side fan run all the time while on track?
you could hard wire it to a switch
and have the fan run in the paddocks after a session

 

temp level is better than flow.

 

matt if you want a spoon one...i'll be removing one from the engine i'm building
that i can sell to you cheap

the owner has fluidyne, spoon t-stat and t-switch....crazy overkill for street car

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Willard &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">temp level is better than flow. </TD></TR></TABLE>

How so, Will? This is a race engine we're talking about, so the Tstat can be considered to be fully open at all times, so the only thing that is going to dictate the cooling rate is the flow rate (which is dictated by the pressure drop) and the radiator. I already have the radiator sorted, but would like to have some extra headr00m by decreasing the pressure drop across the system (and thus increasing the flow rate.)

And you're right Dan, I wasn't thinking straight.

I'll IM j00 later, cause we have some things to talk about

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by El Pollo Diablo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">so the Tstat can be considered to be fully open at all times</TD></TR></TABLE> if it is fully open then you are limited by the radiators efficiency.
if you have a full width radiator a m00gen t-stat it will be fine... even more so if you have a external oil cooler... unless the motor has some issues.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by El Pollo Diablo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I already have the radiator sorted, but would like to have some extra headr00m by decreasing the pressure drop across the system</TD></TR></TABLE> too much flow and you loose some ability to remove heat from the coolant as it passes thru the radiator.

do you have a temp gauge?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Willard &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> if it is fully open then you are limited by the radiators efficiency.
if you have a full width radiator a m00gen t-stat it will be fine... even more so if you have a external oil cooler... unless the motor has some issues. </TD></TR></TABLE>

-I'm not having any problems so far, just trying to plan ahead a bit.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Willard &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
too much flow and you loose some ability to remove heat from the coolant as it passes thru the radiator. </TD></TR></TABLE>

-not so sure about that, I'll have to think about it some more before I reply

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Willard &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
do you have a temp gauge?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Of course...holds steady at around 210 or so...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by El Pollo Diablo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">-not so sure about that, I'll have to think about it some more before I reply</TD></TR></TABLE>


if it passes by too fast... you loose some transfer time.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by El Pollo Diablo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Of course...holds steady at around 210 or so...</TD></TR></TABLE>
why worry?
m00gen t-stat and a full width will take care of a lot of heat.... just make sure you have some sorta grill guard to keep rocks/worms out of there.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Willard &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
just make sure you have some sorta grill guard to keep rocks/worms out of there.</TD></TR></TABLE>

w00t! we get to install chicken wire?! can we paint it hot pink?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Willard &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">


if it passes by too fast... you loose some transfer time.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Transfer time is irrelevant IMO. Amount of energy transfered is directly proportional to the mass flow rate (both of air and coolant) assuming you have a large enough amount of air going through the system. Also, the higher the water velocity the more turbulent the flow is, which is good for heat transfer. (although i don't think we have to worry t00 much about that one) I could be wrong, it's been a while since my thermo class...

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Willard &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
why worry?
m00gen t-stat and a full width will take care of a lot of heat.... just make sure you have some sorta grill guard to keep rocks/worms out of there
</TD></TR></TABLE>

But we just stated that the m00gen t-stat will not provide any extra c00ling capacity at the fully open position....

Chicken wire is employed en force in the kraphatch

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Dan GSR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

also have you considered making the A/C side fan run all the time while on track?
you could hard wire it to a switch
and have the fan run in the paddocks after a session</TD></TR></TABLE>

when the car is moving it creates a positive pressure on the front surface of the radiator

that air has to go thru the radiator to cool it
if you have a fan on the back of the radiator running all the time
you will have more air flow going thru the radiator, and therefore should make the radiator more efficient

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Dan GSR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

when the car is moving it creates a positive pressure on the front surface of the radiator

that air has to go thru the radiator to cool it
if you have a fan on the back of the radiator running all the time
you will have more air flow going thru the radiator, and therefore should make the radiator more efficient</TD></TR></TABLE>

The fan only helps at low speeds and standing still, you actually get more air moving through the radiator with no fan once the car is at speed...

I could prolly run the car with no fan without any problems...I know Todd runs his that way...(similar radiator)

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by El Pollo Diablo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">But we just stated that the m00gen t-stat will not provide any extra c00ling capacity at the fully open position....</TD></TR></TABLE>
are you sure it will be fully open at WOT?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Willard &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
are you sure it will be fully open at WOT?</TD></TR></TABLE>


I guess it depends on how they are rated, is the temp given the opening temp or the fully open temp?

I'm going from the assumption that at 200+ F both T-stats are fully open...correct me if I'm wrong

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Willard &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
are you sure it will be fully open at WOT?</TD></TR></TABLE>


I guess it depends on how they are rated, is the temp given the opening temp or the fully open temp?

I'm going from the assumption that at 200+ F both T-stats are fully open...correct me if I'm wrong

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by El Pollo Diablo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I guess it depends on how they are rated, is the temp given the opening temp or the fully open temp? </TD></TR></TABLE>
Operating temperature: 68°C (STD.: 76~80°C) Full-throttle acceleration temperature: 81°C (STD.: 90°C)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by El Pollo Diablo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'm going from the assumption that at 200+ F both T-stats are fully open...correct me if I'm wrong</TD></TR></TABLE>i think that if any thermostat is fully open for any lenght of time... the motor is waiting to die.

removal of the thermostat seems to be the best plan for j00.
-more flow (turbulent at that)
-lower temps

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Willard &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Operating temperature: 68°C (STD.: 76~80°C) Full-throttle acceleration temperature: 81°C (STD.: 90°C)

i think that if any thermostat is fully open for any lenght of time... the motor is waiting to die.

removal of the thermostat seems to be the best plan for j00.
-more flow (turbulent at that)
-lower temps </TD></TR></TABLE>

I really do dislike the Harris Bros sch00l of sp00n feedin' info....

I get the operating temp, but what the hell is the full-throttle acceleration temp. Is that fully open temp? (ie, temp is radiator limited, and not t-stat controlled?)

Come on mang, spill the beans, sarcasm doesn't suit you well...

 

Damn reposts

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by El Pollo Diablo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">but what the hell is the full-throttle acceleration temp. Is that fully open temp? (ie, temp is radiator limited, and not t-stat controlled?)</TD></TR></TABLE>I 'think' it is the upper range of 'regulated' temperature. A ~48 degree F drop for the m00gen unit over stock t-stats is quite a lot. If the t-stat is open fully at wot the temp gauge will rise and the car will over heat.

In stock form the t-stat stays mostly closed so that the car can have heat (heater/correct combustion temps).... it takes my car ~4/5 mins. to warm up enough so that the fans kicks on after a long easy drive/coast into the garage.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by El Pollo Diablo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Come on mang, spill the beans</TD></TR></TABLE>
full width rad and a stock t-stat is more than enough for a B series (turbo even) in a hatch.

leave well enough alone... the flow rate of the system preforms quite well and should stay the same as it was designed.

 

*yanks the t00th out*

Finally

Thanks Will, makes sense...kinda...

*stays OEM*

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by El Pollo Diablo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">makes sense...kinda...</TD></TR></TABLE>
I am glad it made sense to you... b/c it did not to m3.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Willard &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Ifull width rad and a stock t-stat is more than enough for a B series (turbo even) in a hatch.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

amen.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Willard &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I am glad it made sense to you... b/c it did not to m3. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Well, by "kinda" I mean "not at all"....I just can't see how it would overheat if the t-stat was removed, unless the water pump starts cavitating or something...

BUT since there is no need for me to modify/change the t-stat, it doesn't really matter.

Of course now I'm curious as to the reason why the car would overheat with a fully open, or even removed t-stat.