Hello everyone,
i am trading my headlights for a working b16a3 head, and a bare bottom block that needs rebuilding. While the head is complete minus manifolds, the bottom block is completely bare, no crank either.

What i'm looking for:
~Something to set me apart from other 'slightly modified' b16's and possibly be a little competative with lightly modded b18's

~Cost Affectivness

~Affectively use pump gas


what not looking for:
~i want to stay away from stroking


i have read a little while using the search function, but as far as technical terms go i'm still a novice. How much do you know you can bore over? Do you have to sleeve it back? Or what are the different charecteristics of pistons. I would appreciate any help or links with information (if you have it on hand.) i will also keep searching through archives just to try to enlighten myself a bit better with engine dynamics. but again, i would greatly appreciate any helpful pointers or recommendations.

 

what i'm currently looking into is Skunk2 (stg1 or stg2) or possibly crower, skunk2 IM, new valves (undecided), and eagle connecting rods

i'm not sure when it comes to pistons, there are a lot of numbers that i am not familiar with.

also unsure which crank to get

would putting ctr pistons in have any issues with head clearence? isnt the stock deck a little thicker in the b18b? How do you know when you would need to deck a block and by how much?


Modified by phantom_sol at 4:15 PM 12/24/2003


Modified by phantom_sol at 4:35 PM 12/24/2003

 

Prolly the cheapest and most reliable way to go is a stock b16 crank, pr3 rods, CTR pistons, and CTR cams.

The skunk S1's are not to far away from the CTR cams. You can get the CTR cams for around 350.00 - 400.00. Just make sure they have the rings and groves on the disty side.

 

will there be any problems with head clearence?

 

pr3 pistons, AEBS intake manifold or ITR intake mani, ITR head or itr style port get a nice mill to raise the compression, good 4 - 2 - 1 hytech or comptech race header, hondata s100, ef-1 m22's or skunk2 stage1's , ef-1 valvetrain, cam gears, FPR, and good tuning = hello 190 - 200 to the WHEEL

dont touch the bottom end maybe just new rings if you want but if the motor makes good compression why touch the bottom end ^_^

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by importboi22 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">ITR head or itr style port get a nice mill to raise the compression</TD></TR></TABLE>

Um, an ITR head is a mildly ported B16 head. Doesn't raise compression. Stay with your B16 head.


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by importboi22 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">dont touch the bottom end maybe just new rings if you want but if the motor makes good compression why touch the bottom end ^_^ </TD></TR></TABLE>

Because big cams call for high compression, duh. You can't do much with 10.2:1.

My suggestion would be to rebuild the bottom end with CTR pistons, get your head ported and milled .040", use a 2 layer head gasket. This should put your compression between 12:1 and 12.5:1.

Then, just pick your cams. If you want cheap power, ITR or CTR cams. If you really want to make some good numbers, go with some Toda B's. That setup on B's should be around 185-190whp with good tuning.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Patch &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
get your head ported and milled .040", use a 2 layer head gasket. This should put your compression between 12:1 and 12.5:1.</TD></TR></TABLE>b16 with pct pistons, 2 layer headgasket and a .040 head mill.

will there be enuff piston to valve clearence?
have u done or seen this done before?

 

well i cant use the stock bottom cause there isnt anythign to use right now ^_^

i will have to rebuild the bottom either way.

so far i have been reading that most people would suggest headwork before the bottom. basic bolt ons and minor upgrades i.e cams and valves. ctr pistons would be ok in a b16 block? will i have to have a deck plate for head/piston valve clearence.

what is the best compression you can run on 94 octane pump gas?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tomtomloc &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">b16 with pct pistons, 2 layer headgasket and a .040 head mill.

will there be enuff piston to valve clearence?
have u done or seen this done before?

</TD></TR></TABLE>

I'm involved in a B16 build like I described right now, I'll let you know how it goes. We will probably get everything back from the machine shop and assemble it sometime next week.

 

excellent, please keep me updated...

anyone else have any recommendations

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Patch &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Um, an ITR head is a mildly ported B16 head. Doesn't raise compression. Stay with your B16 head.

i know this thats why i said get a nice MILL!!!!


Because big cams call for high compression, duh. You can't do much with 10.2:1.

My suggestion would be to rebuild the bottom end with CTR pistons, get your head ported and milled .040", use a 2 layer head gasket. This should put your compression between 12:1 and 12.5:1.

Then, just pick your cams. If you want cheap power, ITR or CTR cams. If you really want to make some good numbers, go with some Toda B's. That setup on B's should be around 185-190whp with good tuning.


you can still make close to 11.3 - 11.5 with pr3 pistons (which by the way are the lighest b series piston if i remember correctly) heres a nice link for you to look at so you can look like a dumbass too ^_^ http://ef-1.zeroforum.com/zerothread?id=948 oh ya by the way PCT pistons have a terrible dome shape and are the wrong designed compression height for bseries motors tend to ping themselves to death espcially on 91 **** water like we got in cali...... thank you and have a merry christmas
</TD></TR></TABLE>

 

here are the mods too

The parts were:
2 sets of cams , ef-1 m22/dynamic stg A's
valve springs, port flow
titanium retainers, ef-1
action clutch, 6 puck
8# flywheel
fpr reg and gauge, track masters/ef-1
oem :gasket set, pistons, rings, rods,bearingsadj cam gears , tweakmiester
3.077 first gear
4.785 final drive
type-r LSD
mildly ported cylinder head, port flow (tom cam up with a special valve job just for this motor, b16a)
chipped ecu and adapter harness, pgmfi.com
the exhaust and throttlebody will be in on monday accordinglydone.com
$40 from aussieb20vtec, this will go towards the drag strip entry next week.
310 rc engineering injectors
high compression inconel valves, dynamic autosoprts

 

Why would you not change out pistons during an all motor build? Ok, sure, you can get 11.3:1 compression on PR3 pistons with a milled head and a 2 layer HG, but why? So a PCT piston weighs 30 grams more? So what? I'll take my extra point of compression please. Anyone else who wants to make power would too.

Milling the head and using a thinner HG aren't the best ways of raising compression anyway. They limit how much you can tune the cam gears, because as the head sits lower on the block (thinner HG, milled head), cam timing is retarded.

CTR pistons obviously aren't as awful as your paint them out to be. They are what people run in all motor B18s, and compression between 12.5:1 and 13:1. As for the pinging, thats just false. A good tuner can eliminate all pinging, even on 91. There was a guy in the ITR forum that ran 13:1 compression with CTR pistons on 91 octane with no pinging, I find it incredibly hard to believe that it would be a problem on a car with 12:1 compression.

I don't feel like a dumbass, maybe thats because I know what I'm talking about. How many all motor B16s have YOU built?

 

im just saying you dont have to run 12+ compression to make 200hp ^_^ its ALL in the HEAD sorry but thats true no matter what you say..... spend 300-500 on the block if you want i'd rather spend that on a header or some headwork

 

and sure it maynot ping on the dyno.... but on the street im sure it pings.... i've seen a few cars that were "tuned" to the limit on 91 that never pinged on the dyno.... but once it got out onto the street the cars didnt last but a few months

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by importboi22 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">and sure it maynot ping on the dyno.... but on the street im sure it pings.... i've seen a few cars that were "tuned" to the limit on 91 that never pinged on the dyno.... but once it got out onto the street the cars didnt last but a few months</TD></TR></TABLE>

Once again, a good tuner will not let this happen. Whoever tuned these cars that 'only lasted a few months', why would you ever go to them?

 

sorry i just think realbility is number 1 on my list for my honda hence why i wont go over 11.5:1 on 91 i drive my honda to and fro and i want it to get me there and back and run great..... i do all my scary stuff like high compression rotors and to4e with my rx7, i learned the hard way..... keep it simple and itll still make power that you want it too

 

these were supposidly good "tuners" recommended by some trusted H-T members and the cars still were tuned to much for the dyno and werent taken in considerations for the street aka, varible loads , varible heat and humidity..... when a car is at the limit aka 12.5:1 compression or 10.5:1 with boost on 91 your gonna end up tuning it more conservitive and be closer to the edge then you would if you stuck with say 11.5:1 or 8.5-9:1 with boost you could be more how would i say it? lientient? (sp?) with tuning and still make great power and have it drive every day like a stock honda. If you wanna live on the edge.... fine by me i want my honda to last 80 - 90k miles before i have to start doing stuff to it agian

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by importboi22 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">these were supposidly good "tuners" recommended by some trusted H-T members and the cars still were tuned to much for the dyno and werent taken in considerations for the street aka, varible loads , varible heat and humidity..... </TD></TR></TABLE>

I understand what you are saying here, and I agree with you. However, a good tuner would take all of those variables into account and tune your car so that it should run 100,000k miles and beyond. If I took my car and had it tuned, and 4 months later it blew up because of pinging, or leaning out, I would definately have words with the tuner.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Patch &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I understand what you are saying here, and I agree with you. However, a good tuner would take all of those variables into account and tune your car so that it should run 100,000k miles and beyond. If I took my car and had it tuned, and 4 months later it blew up because of pinging, or leaning out, I would definately have words with the tuner.</TD></TR></TABLE>

oh trust me he did and the tuner doesnt care he got his 600 dollars..... ya i know how the kid feels.... 2001 ITR with 15k miles and the ringlands are bad from shitty tuning..... sure the car never detonated on the dyno but on the street im sure under WOT it pinged quite a bit. I learn from others mistakes and keep it simple no reason to go all out when its your daily driver ya know? I think we have two different points of view here..... mine is 1. Realible 2. Fast or quick 3. Simple

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Patch &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I'm involved in a B16 build like I described right now, I'll let you know how it goes. We will probably get everything back from the machine shop and assemble it sometime next week.</TD></TR></TABLE>
yes please let me know i want to built me a b16 monster too!!!!!!!!!

 

well, while i see ctr pistons are used in b18 all motors, i'm still unsure if it poses a problem in a b16 as far as clearence, unless i'm missing something. no need to get into a battle folks ^_^ just some friendly advice and constructive opinions thanks everyone so far... this is very informative