98 Type R or 02 Type S
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From: New Port Nowhere, Florida, USA
98 Type R or 02 Type S
As some of you may know, I am trying to sell my 99 Si to be replaced with a 98 ITR. But the more I think about it, the more frustrtated I am becoming w/ a decision: Type R or RSX Type S. So, I need your opinions (and those on the RSX board) to help ease my decision and / or give me pros and cons.
First off the Type R will be stock, and will stay stock for as long as possible. I do plan to take it to HPDE and some autocrosses, so I can learn how to drive the car. But, the Si's replacement will be a daily driver too. And while I am not too worried about theft in my area, it would really suck to find it missing one day. And yes I am a paranoid person when it comes to my car.
As for the RSX-s, the more I see the Mugen front clip on one, the more attractive it becomes. It would be a 2002, used, but still with warranty. But the K-series is a whole other monster to deal with. This car would stay stock, but probably not for very long. Plus for around $18-$20K I have found both cars w/ roughly the same amount of miles; 30K.
Any opinions are welcome; those with seat time in both would be extremely useful.
Thanks,
Ken
First off the Type R will be stock, and will stay stock for as long as possible. I do plan to take it to HPDE and some autocrosses, so I can learn how to drive the car. But, the Si's replacement will be a daily driver too. And while I am not too worried about theft in my area, it would really suck to find it missing one day. And yes I am a paranoid person when it comes to my car.
As for the RSX-s, the more I see the Mugen front clip on one, the more attractive it becomes. It would be a 2002, used, but still with warranty. But the K-series is a whole other monster to deal with. This car would stay stock, but probably not for very long. Plus for around $18-$20K I have found both cars w/ roughly the same amount of miles; 30K.
Any opinions are welcome; those with seat time in both would be extremely useful.
Thanks,
Ken
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From: New Port Nowhere, Florida, USA
Re: 98 Type R or 02 Type S (itr1235)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by itr1235 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">ask two car owners to take you for a ride in each car and that might help you decide. i have never looked back 
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Am I assuming correctly that you have an ITR ??
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">My opinion: CW ownij </TD></TR></TABLE>
Yeah, I know. But the RSX-S will be white.
</TD></TR></TABLE>Am I assuming correctly that you have an ITR ??
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">My opinion: CW ownij </TD></TR></TABLE>
Yeah, I know. But the RSX-S will be white.
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Re: 98 Type R or 02 Type S (NXSpoon)
Even tho a few people use their Rs as daily drivers including me...
you have said a few things that I would say go other then R.
daily driver- Dangerous in many ways
paranoid person- nerve wrecking.
with warranty- can't beat that.
And for one question of mine, Do you have a garage? if so then maybe, if not then go with the RSX.
you have said a few things that I would say go other then R.
daily driver- Dangerous in many ways
paranoid person- nerve wrecking.
with warranty- can't beat that.
And for one question of mine, Do you have a garage? if so then maybe, if not then go with the RSX.
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Re: (skafia)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by skafia »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I made the same decision before I purchased my R, go with the 1998 R, way better car IMHO. But be careful, people tend to steal ITR's 
</TD></TR></TABLE>
And that is what worries me. I mean I have a garage and an alarm, but I really like to drive. 97,000 miles on my 99 Si. Can you imagine what it would be like if I have an R??
Tomorrow I will probably go to Carmax, and take a Type S for a spin.
Anyone local have an R they want to take me for a ride in??? Tampa Bay area??
Dave-ROR where are you ???
</TD></TR></TABLE>And that is what worries me. I mean I have a garage and an alarm, but I really like to drive. 97,000 miles on my 99 Si. Can you imagine what it would be like if I have an R??
Tomorrow I will probably go to Carmax, and take a Type S for a spin.
Anyone local have an R they want to take me for a ride in??? Tampa Bay area??
Dave-ROR where are you ???
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From: Igloos and dogsleds
Re: 98 Type R or 02 Type S (NXSpoon)
Well,
I have to say I was in a similar situation seemingly not too long ago... And it really comes down to whether you want creature comforts (leather, climate control, sub woofer, A/C, seat warmers, sunroof, etc.) or you want a "pure" driving experience. There is no substitute for the R in terms of driving experience and performance, especially when you are speaking of remaining stock, hands down the R beats the S easy, no contest.
HOWEVER, along with this, comes several other factors that many people don't realize at first what the are going to face.
Theft, the single most biggest problem with the R, it is wanted by EVERYONE and their mom... they've been stolen out of their garages, offices, you name it, it's been stolen from there...
Comfort, the R is not a comfortable car, aside from the interior designed back in 1994, it has been stripped down, no extra insulation, no comfy struts, no friendly ride height, it will be a loud, stiff and bumpy ride, and if you happen not to get one with A/C, it'll be a hot one in the summer too.
Extra attention, somewhat similar to the theft problem, in the way that everyone will want to drive like maniacs around your car because they feel that they have to flex their riced-out civics and GS(R)'s at you, even if you are driving at 30mph and this also includes the cops, where a nice championship white car speeding down the road is a nice easy target that stands out from the rest.
But if you haven't driven an R yet, which it does actually seem to be the case if you are even asking this question... drive one... and you will know the answer.
It will be either too raw of an experience for you, or you will fall in love...
But again, you must be ready to become the most paranoid person you've ever known and go out of your way to care for your car. For some people, that is too high a price to pay, others just live with it, and still others cry when their R's are taken from them...
It's your money... don't buy something you don't want, because you'll be living with it for years to come... and I've been as honest as I can be, I mean, you DID ask this question in the ITR forum...
Oh yeah, another thing... a 98ITR would be 4 years older than the 02RSX... and pretty much out of most of it's warranty... then again an 01ITR would only be 1 year older... hint hint... : 
I have to say I was in a similar situation seemingly not too long ago... And it really comes down to whether you want creature comforts (leather, climate control, sub woofer, A/C, seat warmers, sunroof, etc.) or you want a "pure" driving experience. There is no substitute for the R in terms of driving experience and performance, especially when you are speaking of remaining stock, hands down the R beats the S easy, no contest.
HOWEVER, along with this, comes several other factors that many people don't realize at first what the are going to face.
Theft, the single most biggest problem with the R, it is wanted by EVERYONE and their mom... they've been stolen out of their garages, offices, you name it, it's been stolen from there...
Comfort, the R is not a comfortable car, aside from the interior designed back in 1994, it has been stripped down, no extra insulation, no comfy struts, no friendly ride height, it will be a loud, stiff and bumpy ride, and if you happen not to get one with A/C, it'll be a hot one in the summer too.
Extra attention, somewhat similar to the theft problem, in the way that everyone will want to drive like maniacs around your car because they feel that they have to flex their riced-out civics and GS(R)'s at you, even if you are driving at 30mph and this also includes the cops, where a nice championship white car speeding down the road is a nice easy target that stands out from the rest.
But if you haven't driven an R yet, which it does actually seem to be the case if you are even asking this question...
drive one... and you will know the answer.It will be either too raw of an experience for you, or you will fall in love...
But again, you must be ready to become the most paranoid person you've ever known and go out of your way to care for your car. For some people, that is too high a price to pay, others just live with it, and still others cry when their R's are taken from them...
It's your money... don't buy something you don't want, because you'll be living with it for years to come... and I've been as honest as I can be, I mean, you DID ask this question in the ITR forum...
Oh yeah, another thing... a 98ITR would be 4 years older than the 02RSX... and pretty much out of most of it's warranty... then again an 01ITR would only be 1 year older...
hint hint... :
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Re: (NXSpoon)
i believe i'm a very logical person, i'm not going to favour either one
scenario:
me - '03 Type S (intake/suspension/tires/weight reduction). i have a handful of friends with mildly modded ITRs so i get to drive one whenever i want
ITR
pros: very direct, point and shoot, light on its feet, much more suitable on the track, stock LSD, better stock suspension, huge aftermarket support and bling factor imo
cons: giving up a good bit of torque and midrange, body structure less solid, gearbox a little notchy compared to the lifeless joystick of the RSX
Type S
pros: engine potential (can always be hondata reflashed to reveal significant low-midrange power and 8,600rpm redline, a reputable header can give gains of up to 15-20whp etc) 6 speed gearbox, engine refinement (way less buzzy), plush and upscale interior, niceties like heated seats/mirrors, leather and sunroof (i always thought of those as cons)
cons: macpherson struts (i have a big story for that)
for a logical decision, it all comes down to what you're gonna use it for - all out track warrior or a comfy everyday driver and occasional weekend auto-x/lapping events? when you make up your mind the choice becomes easy. to tell you the truth, i had a great time at the roadcourse with my stock Type S /w rubber upgrade (i chose Falken Azenis). the suspension was very compliant over all sorts of bumps which made the car utterly predictable and confidence inspiring.
FLT-A2 is a good setup imo as they provided exceptional and consistent damping force throughout is travel. the spring rates and the dampers are also well matched so i couldn't fault the them. the only problem i've had with them is unlike cars with double a-arms up front, the strut's camber angle is not directly proportional to the amount the vehicle was lowered. since i don't like my cars dumped (i had 2+ finger gap all around), i couldn't get more than -1.6" upfront with the camber kit maxed out. from this i can tell the camber curve on the struts is shiiiiiiet compared to that of the wishbone setup.
and when i lowered my car further in search for more natural camber, i ran into a huge problem - the damper adjuster **** (which are normally on top but JICs feature inverted dampers) tore right into my CV boots (i was only at 1.5 finger gap at this point). you can imagine how pissed i was
anyway, i'm sorry for the long writeup but i thought i'd share my experience with you guys. i know of alot of people who bought ITRs for the hype instead of its unique off-the shelf repli-racer experience, and i dispise them. death to all the followers who can't appreciate an R for what it is
scenario:
me - '03 Type S (intake/suspension/tires/weight reduction). i have a handful of friends with mildly modded ITRs so i get to drive one whenever i want
ITR
pros: very direct, point and shoot, light on its feet, much more suitable on the track, stock LSD, better stock suspension, huge aftermarket support and bling factor imo
cons: giving up a good bit of torque and midrange, body structure less solid, gearbox a little notchy compared to the lifeless joystick of the RSX
Type S
pros: engine potential (can always be hondata reflashed to reveal significant low-midrange power and 8,600rpm redline, a reputable header can give gains of up to 15-20whp etc) 6 speed gearbox, engine refinement (way less buzzy), plush and upscale interior, niceties like heated seats/mirrors, leather and sunroof (i always thought of those as cons)
cons: macpherson struts (i have a big story for that)
for a logical decision, it all comes down to what you're gonna use it for - all out track warrior or a comfy everyday driver and occasional weekend auto-x/lapping events? when you make up your mind the choice becomes easy. to tell you the truth, i had a great time at the roadcourse with my stock Type S /w rubber upgrade (i chose Falken Azenis). the suspension was very compliant over all sorts of bumps which made the car utterly predictable and confidence inspiring.
FLT-A2 is a good setup imo as they provided exceptional and consistent damping force throughout is travel. the spring rates and the dampers are also well matched so i couldn't fault the them. the only problem i've had with them is unlike cars with double a-arms up front, the strut's camber angle is not directly proportional to the amount the vehicle was lowered. since i don't like my cars dumped (i had 2+ finger gap all around), i couldn't get more than -1.6" upfront with the camber kit maxed out. from this i can tell the camber curve on the struts is shiiiiiiet compared to that of the wishbone setup.
and when i lowered my car further in search for more natural camber, i ran into a huge problem - the damper adjuster **** (which are normally on top but JICs feature inverted dampers) tore right into my CV boots (i was only at 1.5 finger gap at this point). you can imagine how pissed i was
anyway, i'm sorry for the long writeup but i thought i'd share my experience with you guys. i know of alot of people who bought ITRs for the hype instead of its unique off-the shelf repli-racer experience, and i dispise them. death to all the followers who can't appreciate an R for what it is
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Re: 98 Type R or 02 Type S (DC2fanboy)
One more thing,
the DC5 is based on a minivan chassis... Straight from the horses mouth... even Spoon's Ichishima "admits to be unimpressed with the DC5 as a base for modifications. 'It's based on a van', he says, 'it's a Stream Coupe !'. Similarly the EP3 to him is a 'Stream hot-hatch'."
We still love our DC5 brothers... don't we?!? Of course!! After all, they are still Integras outside of North America...
(Sorry, I had to do it!!!... lol... )
the DC5 is based on a minivan chassis...
Straight from the horses mouth... even Spoon's Ichishima "admits to be unimpressed with the DC5 as a base for modifications. 'It's based on a van', he says, 'it's a Stream Coupe !'. Similarly the EP3 to him is a 'Stream hot-hatch'."We still love our DC5 brothers... don't we?!? Of course!!
After all, they are still Integras outside of North America... (Sorry, I had to do it!!!... lol...
)
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From: New Port Nowhere, Florida, USA
Re: 98 Type R or 02 Type S (Bbasso)
Thanks everyone. Bbasso, DC2fanboy and fuko; these are exactly the replies I was hoping for.
To answer some of your questions/concerns:
1.Yes I have a garage, and my alarm is on even when my car is in it.
2. I live in Florida, where no one can fricking drive. With all the rain we get, you'd think that these people would eventually learn how to drive in it
3. I have driven an R, 2001. But it looks like it was a Pike's Peak car and 2nd gear was giving me some problems on the test drive. Plus it was from a dealer and I didn't want to "really" drive it; not with 2nd gear acting up like it was.
4. I don't have a problem with the R being "raw". I actually like it that way; loud, obnoxious, stiff, etc. I hate leather, so the seats would have to go. And my rubber choice is the Falken Azenis as well.
Look at my car and see how it is set up: https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=700899
5. My car is lowered only maybe an 1.5 inches. I have roughly 1 and a half finger width of space between the tire and fenderwell. That is all I want, nothing too low. And I have the alignment shop set my camber at -1 all around. Wonderful handling.
6. The car will remain a daily driver, w/ occasional track/drag and autocrossing. I really want to into Solo 2. The ITR will have A/C, no way I am driving in Fl. w/out it.
But really, I can daily drive each one (paranoia not-withstanding), track either one, etc. Noise, Vibration, Harshness; they don't bother me. I actually liked my Si when I had no carpet, padding , back seat, etc.
I think I just made it harder on myself.....
To answer some of your questions/concerns:
1.Yes I have a garage, and my alarm is on even when my car is in it.
2. I live in Florida, where no one can fricking drive. With all the rain we get, you'd think that these people would eventually learn how to drive in it
3. I have driven an R, 2001. But it looks like it was a Pike's Peak car and 2nd gear was giving me some problems on the test drive. Plus it was from a dealer and I didn't want to "really" drive it; not with 2nd gear acting up like it was.
4. I don't have a problem with the R being "raw". I actually like it that way; loud, obnoxious, stiff, etc. I hate leather, so the seats would have to go. And my rubber choice is the Falken Azenis as well.
Look at my car and see how it is set up: https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=700899
5. My car is lowered only maybe an 1.5 inches. I have roughly 1 and a half finger width of space between the tire and fenderwell. That is all I want, nothing too low. And I have the alignment shop set my camber at -1 all around. Wonderful handling.
6. The car will remain a daily driver, w/ occasional track/drag and autocrossing. I really want to into Solo 2. The ITR will have A/C, no way I am driving in Fl. w/out it.
But really, I can daily drive each one (paranoia not-withstanding), track either one, etc. Noise, Vibration, Harshness; they don't bother me. I actually liked my Si when I had no carpet, padding , back seat, etc.
I think I just made it harder on myself.....
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Re: 98 Type R or 02 Type S (jmb)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jmb »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">98 ITR. keep it stock and drive it forever.
but of course I am biased. buy my car and find out for yourself </TD></TR></TABLE>
I'd love too, but I don't know if you'll still have it whenever my car sells
I can't believe that your R hasn't sold already
It looks like I am going to have to part it out after all, I am giving it one more month as is. Last place to try is Auto Trader. The guys on here think that the price is right, I guess no one wants Si's anymore.
but of course I am biased. buy my car and find out for yourself
</TD></TR></TABLE>I'd love too, but I don't know if you'll still have it whenever my car sells
I can't believe that your R hasn't sold already
It looks like I am going to have to part it out after all, I am giving it one more month as is. Last place to try is Auto Trader. The guys on here think that the price is right, I guess no one wants Si's anymore.
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From: Fairbanks
Re: 98 Type R or 02 Type S (NXSpoon)
You want my honest opinion?
ITR over RSX-S. For a single reason. L.S.D.
Also, if I were in your situation, it would be an ITR vs. some other car that is RWD. But,
any competant, newish (~30k mi) RWD will cost you ~$23-25k (unless you like Miatas).
p.s. If you have a garage (at work & at home) + an alarm w/ pager + lo-jack, just driver the fugger. Don't let thieves dictate your life.
ITR over RSX-S. For a single reason. L.S.D.
Also, if I were in your situation, it would be an ITR vs. some other car that is RWD. But,
any competant, newish (~30k mi) RWD will cost you ~$23-25k (unless you like Miatas).
p.s. If you have a garage (at work & at home) + an alarm w/ pager + lo-jack, just driver the fugger. Don't let thieves dictate your life.
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From: Aye BaY BaY, california, usa
Re: 98 Type R or 02 Type S (DeL SLo)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DeL SLo »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I would go with the RSX. Looks better, nicer interior, and engine has more potential. Mid-High 13's with Hondata reflash...crazy </TD></TR></TABLE>
VERY TRUE!!..my good buddy has a Type S with Hondata Reflash, DAC Intake, Comptech exhaust, Hondata Gasket and has put down 195whp already on a dynojet...the I-vtec has some very good potential
</TD></TR></TABLE>VERY TRUE!!..my good buddy has a Type S with Hondata Reflash, DAC Intake, Comptech exhaust, Hondata Gasket and has put down 195whp already on a dynojet...the I-vtec has some very good potential
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From: New Port Nowhere, Florida, USA
Re: 98 Type R or 02 Type S (Cosworth)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Cosworth »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You want my honest opinion?
ITR over RSX-S. For a single reason. L.S.D.
p.s. If you have a garage (at work & at home) + an alarm w/ pager + lo-jack, just driver the fugger. Don't let thieves dictate your life. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Well I can always put in a DC-5R LSD or a Quaife, right??
And thieves wouldn't dictate me, first thing is a $2000 alarm system w/ pager, lojack and GPS tracking. Best money ever spent.
ITR over RSX-S. For a single reason. L.S.D.
p.s. If you have a garage (at work & at home) + an alarm w/ pager + lo-jack, just driver the fugger. Don't let thieves dictate your life. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Well I can always put in a DC-5R LSD or a Quaife, right??
And thieves wouldn't dictate me, first thing is a $2000 alarm system w/ pager, lojack and GPS tracking. Best money ever spent.
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From: New Port Nowhere, Florida, USA
Re: 98 Type R or 02 Type S (ItrChris)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ItrChris »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">dave aint got no Hype R...
If you want to rape mine- hit me up.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Hell yeah !! After this weekend, OK. Finally be nice to meet some of you guys.
If you want to rape mine- hit me up.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Hell yeah !! After this weekend, OK. Finally be nice to meet some of you guys.
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From: Fairbanks
Re: 98 Type R or 02 Type S (NXSpoon)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by NXSpoon »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Well I can always put in a DC-5R LSD or a Quaife, right??
And thieves wouldn't dictate me, first thing is a $2000 alarm system w/ pager, lojack and GPS tracking. Best money ever spent.</TD></TR></TABLE>
True, you can put aftermarket LSD. But, I was comparing stock vs. stock. If you can find a stock '98 R, I wouldn't really mess with it... maybe suspension. But, I'm done with modding cars for a while, so my views are a bit skewed.... I love fast, competent stock cars now days.
Well I can always put in a DC-5R LSD or a Quaife, right??
And thieves wouldn't dictate me, first thing is a $2000 alarm system w/ pager, lojack and GPS tracking. Best money ever spent.</TD></TR></TABLE>
True, you can put aftermarket LSD. But, I was comparing stock vs. stock. If you can find a stock '98 R, I wouldn't really mess with it... maybe suspension. But, I'm done with modding cars for a while, so my views are a bit skewed.... I love fast, competent stock cars now days.