I have a 99 B16A2 (Si) head that I took to this guy for all new valvetrain, I gave him NEW in Honda Packaging Cast Iron Guides, and NEW Seals, and he's telling me on the phone today, that the Stems of the valves do NOT fit into the guides.... What the hell is wrong???

I think This guy doesn't know what he's talking about.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MugenB16A2 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I think This guy doesn't know what he's talking about.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yeah that or Honda sent you the wrong guides although I am not familiar with any Honda valves with smaller stem diameters.

 

ok....

Can anyone else shed some light???

 

When you install new guides, you have to ream them. Otherwise the valves will not fit-too tight.

 

That's right, you have to ream you guides. If the machine shop doesn't know that, then I would't take anything there.

 

sooo, this is a normal process, that the guides are too tight to begin with??? He said he had to overnight a special tool from Cali, to "bore" out the I.D. of the guides... I told him fine, do it.

So, this is normal though, the part about the guides being too small?

 

Part of the process installing the guides involves hitting them in with a valve guide driver. The guides then develop a lip around the area of impact, thus the need for reaming.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by b19coupe &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Part of the process installing the guides involves hitting them in with a valve guide driver. The guides then develop a lip around the area of impact, thus the need for reaming.</TD></TR></TABLE>

 

cool, thanks, i suppose the lip inhibits the Valves from entering the guides, correct?

 

Correct.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MugenB16A2 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">He said he had to overnight a special tool from Cali, to "bore" out the I.D. of the guides... I told him fine, do it.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

WTF?

There is no one in the eastern half of the US that has a tool needed for proper valve guide installation? Something doesn't sound right here.

 

I don't know, I am going there tomorrow at 8am Sharp, and I'm gonna let him do the talking... Then we'll see what happens.

I dont know what else to do, I REALLY wanted this done by tomorrow, but I really don't see that happening.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EKhatch &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

WTF?

There is no one in the eastern half of the US that has a tool needed for proper valve guide installation? Something doesn't sound right here. </TD></TR></TABLE>

um LOL

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by b19coupe &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Part of the process installing the guides involves hitting them in with a valve guide driver. The guides then develop a lip around the area of impact, thus the need for reaming.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Not with the right tools
I ream the guides in a lathe first
then install and then I hone to my specs
I never have put a lip on a guide...
Sounds like alot of hack jobs going on

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MAX_CFM &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Not with the right tools
I ream the guides in a lathe first
then install and then I hone to my specs
I never have put a lip on a guide...
Sounds like alot of hack jobs going on </TD></TR></TABLE>

How do you Hone a 5.5mm guide?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by K20EG &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

How do you Hone a 5.5mm guide?
</TD></TR></TABLE>

With precision.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EKhatch &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

With precision. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Well Since you said it

good Ol sunnen P190

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MAX_CFM &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Well Since you said it

good Ol sunnen P190</TD></TR></TABLE>

Thanks bro

 

No prob

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EKhatch &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

WTF?

There is no one in the eastern half of the US that has a tool needed for proper valve guide installation? Something doesn't sound right here. </TD></TR></TABLE>Trust me just because he took his head to a moron doesn't mean there aren't good shops on the east coast.First to clear up some misinformation,when you take out or install a guide the tool you use has a tip that fits into the bore of the guide and an 1 deg.angled face that contacts the guide top at the outer diameter and pushes the guide out so it never touches the area around the bore and shouldn't leave a lip.2nd when you install a guide it goes in w/a pressed fit(bore is .001-.002 smaller then the od of the guide),what this does is compact the guide and makes the hole slightly smaller.To fix this you ream the guides so they are all the same size and hone to finish the sizing.Also he should have some good percision tools in his shop like this for honing.

Modified by fkned at 3:55 AM 12/23/2003


Modified by fkned at 3:56 AM 12/23/2003


Modified by fkned at 3:57 AM 12/23/2003

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by fkned &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">First to clear up some misinformation,when you take out or install a guide the tool you use has a tip that fits into the bore of the guide and an 1 deg.angled face that contacts the guide top at the outer diameter and pushes the guide out so it never touches the area around the bore and shouldn't leave a lip. 2nd when you install a guide it goes in w/a pressed fit(bore is .001-.002 smaller then the od of the guide),what this does is compact the guide and makes the hole slightly smaller. To fix this you ream the guides so they are all the same size and hone to finish the sizing.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Good info. I have always used the special tool from Honda to remove/install guides. The tip does go about 5mm or so into the guide ; I did not know that there was an angle on the face that contacts the guide. I had assumed that because the valves fit the guides perfectly prior to installation, and would be extremely tight after the guide was installed in the head, that the process of installing the guide had created a lip. It never occurred to me that the guide bore in the head was actually compressing the guide

I have always heated the head to 200 degrees F. , put the new guides in a small container of oil and stuck them in the freezer for at least an hour prior to installation. They usually go in like butter. Then I use the reamer that Honda provides to open the guide back up for the valve. I am going to have to get me one of those :

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by fkned &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Trust me just because he took his head to a moron doesn't mean there aren't good shops on the east coast.First to clear up some misinformation,when you take out or install a guide the tool you use has a tip that fits into the bore of the guide and an 1 deg.angled face that contacts the guide top at the outer diameter and pushes the guide out so it never touches the area around the bore and shouldn't leave a lip.2nd when you install a guide it goes in w/a pressed fit(bore is .001-.002 smaller then the od of the guide),what this does is compact the guide and makes the hole slightly smaller.To fix this you ream the guides so they are all the same size and hone to finish the sizing.Also he should have some good percision tools in his shop like this for honing.

Modified by fkned at 3:55 AM 12/23/2003


Modified by fkned at 3:56 AM 12/23/2003


Modified by fkned at 3:57 AM 12/23/2003</TD></TR></TABLE>


lol, good info.

But.......there isn't any good machine shops in Florida for the past 5 years that cater to Hondas.
There a few underground shops in Miami, but I've never seen there work. As far as in the Tampa/Orlando/Jacksonville area....NONE. I know for a fact since I get all customers from all over the state buying new heads from me after a certain machine shop screw things up.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by fkned &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Trust me just because he took his head to a moron doesn't mean there aren't good shops on the east coast.First to clear up some misinformation,when you take out or install a guide the tool you use has a tip that fits into the bore of the guide and an 1 deg.angled face that contacts the guide top at the outer diameter and pushes the guide out so it never touches the area around the bore and shouldn't leave a lip.2nd when you install a guide it goes in w/a pressed fit(bore is .001-.002 smaller then the od of the guide),what this does is compact the guide and makes the hole slightly smaller.To fix this you ream the guides so they are all the same size and hone to finish the sizing.Also he should have some good percision tools in his shop like this for honing.

Modified by fkned at 3:55 AM 12/23/2003


Modified by fkned at 3:56 AM 12/23/2003


Modified by fkned at 3:57 AM 12/23/2003</TD></TR></TABLE>

Well said

 

I know of a good Honda machine shop in Orlando, if your interested let me know.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by BERT-O &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
But.......there isn't any good machine shops in Florida for the past 5 years that cater to Hondas.
There a few underground shops in Miami, but I've never seen there work. As far as in the Tampa/Orlando/Jacksonville area....NONE. I know for a fact since I get all customers from all over the state buying new heads from me after a certain machine shop screw things up.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by BERT-O &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">


lol, good info.

But.......there isn't any good machine shops in Florida for the past 5 years that cater to Hondas.
There a few underground shops in Miami, but I've never seen there work. As far as in the Tampa/Orlando/Jacksonville area....NONE. I know for a fact since I get all customers from all over the state buying new heads from me after a certain machine shop screw things up.

</TD></TR></TABLE>That's what UPS and the brown truck are for,send thoose ******* up north us yankees will take good care of em.