I understand that the R comes stock with a 24 mm front sway, and 22 mm rear sway. why is that? generally, shouldnt matching sizes of sway bars be the best thing to do for the track, autocrosses, and just driving in general? on a stock R, would replacing the rear sway with a 24 mm sway bar such as mugen be a good idea? or no...?

 

24mm in the rear

 

Dispite the great design, there are a number of things that America didn't get because little girls getting groceries seems to be a stereotype that we have. You are correct determining that a larger rear bar will increase rotation.

Be careful - get the 24mm mugen bar & be prepared to swing out like a saloon door!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JDM_Type-R &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I understand that the R comes stock with a 24 mm front sway, and 22 mm rear sway. why is that? generally, shouldnt matching sizes of sway bars be the best thing to do for the track, autocrosses, and just driving in general? </TD></TR></TABLE>

Not really, unless a car has a perfect 50/50 weight distribtion, same rate shocks and dampers front and rear, etc.
The question is (or should be), what do you want to change in the handling characteristic(s) of your car when you drive it at the limits (roadcourse, autocross, high speed cross country, etc.)?

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by BudMan &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Be careful - get the 24mm mugen bar & be prepared to swing out like a saloon door! </TD></TR></TABLE>

Hehehe ....

 

stiffness of a bar is also determined on how it is made, like its shape. i can have two same size
bar but one could be a lot mroe stiffer than the other. dont jus look at the size.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JDM_Type-R &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I understand that the R comes stock with a 24 mm front sway, and 22 mm rear sway. why is that? generally, shouldnt matching sizes of sway bars be the best thing to do for the track, autocrosses, and just driving in general? on a stock R, would replacing the rear sway with a 24 mm sway bar such as mugen be a good idea? or no...?</TD></TR></TABLE>

How did you come to the determination that equal sized sway bars are the best? What makes you think this? Not just 'because it sounds good' or something like that... i mean, prove it.

In japan the sway bars on the ITR are one mm larger front and rear.... 25/23.

I'm sure a good deal of research went into the setup of this car, as with any other car. You can't just mass produce a car that has a tendency to oversteer, it isn't safe for public roads or for the average driver. That would be why you notice most mass production vehicles have a tendency to understeer - it is safer.

Chris - who doesn't understand where generalizations like this come from.... who ever said equal sized sway bars are the best for every car?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Chris N &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

How did you come to the determination that equal sized sway bars are the best? What makes you think this? Not just 'because it sounds good' or something like that... i mean, prove it.

In japan the sway bars on the ITR are one mm larger front and rear.... 25/23.

I'm sure a good deal of research went into the setup of this car, as with any other car. You can't just mass produce a car that has a tendency to oversteer, it isn't safe for public roads or for the average driver. That would be why you notice most mass production vehicles have a tendency to understeer - it is safer.

Chris - who doesn't understand where generalizations like this come from.... who ever said equal sized sway bars are the best for every car?</TD></TR></TABLE>

thats why i phrased it like a question dummy

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JDM_Type-R &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">generally, shouldnt matching sizes of sway bars be the best thing to do for the track, autocrosses, and just driving in general? on a stock R, would replacing the rear sway with a 24 mm sway bar such as mug</TD></TR></TABLE>

That statement really isn't a question, is it? I'm just wondering where you got that info... that matching sizes was 'best'. Not flaming.. just wondering.

 

yah but can one actually notice 2mm, i mean come on?...-Roger

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by trutuner &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">yah but can one actually notice 2mm, i mean come on?...-Roger</TD></TR></TABLE>

Actually YES!
Especially since the "strength" of the bar is proportional to something like the radius squared.
Someone did the math in a post recently and it comes out to something like 40% stiffer.

 

ok thanks i stand corrected!...-Roger

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Chris N &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

That statement really isn't a question, is it? I'm just wondering where you got that info... that matching sizes was 'best'. Not flaming.. just wondering.</TD></TR></TABLE>

sounds like a question to me...
and i assumed that it was the best to have matching sizes
everybody makes assumptions
dont even pretend like u dont

 

like i said.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mr. Choi &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">stiffness of a bar is also determined on how it is made, like its shape. i can have two same size
bar but one could be a lot mroe stiffer than the other. dont jus look at the size.</TD></TR></TABLE>

 

Anyone here using the Mugen 26mm front and 24mm rear with good results?

 

What aspect of handling are you trying to change?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Reid &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">What aspect of handling are you trying to change?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Who, me?
My car handles great right now and I wouldn't change a thing.
Took me about 2-3 years to finally get it how I like it.

Now I just need to see to the powerplant and brakes.

 

I currently autocross and recently swithced to Victoracers, with the Mugen 26mm rear bar and Azenis it handled perfect, but now with the victoracers I can't keep the rear planted, it swings out too easy. I tried adjusting the suspension and tire pressure but it has no effect on the rotation.

I am thinking to go back to the stock rear bar and see what that will do.

Since It handled perfect with the Azenis I feel comfotable to say that the weight distribution was close to where it needs to be. the only changes are .5 inches wider wheels and the victoracers.

Any recommendations.


thanks

 

Maybe a front sway bar to go along with it? Higher front roll stiffness increases steering response. The turn-in is awesome but it also comes with some mid-corner understeer.

 

that understeer can be adjusted with the shock adjustments, right?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Renegade &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">that understeer can be adjusted with the shock adjustments, right?
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Shock adjustments, IMO, is more for weather and track condition rather than changing the actual cornering behavior of a car. Adding camber is a good way to combat understeer.

You can try -2.5 or -3 up front. Huge difference, but yet still won't kill the tires when driven daily (assuming toe is straight).

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Champ R &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Anyone here using the Mugen 26mm front and 24mm rear with good results?</TD></TR></TABLE>

That would be an odd combination - it would lead to understeer. I have Mugen 26mm front and rear (with Lowdowns - all of which I am selling BTW). This setup gives amazing balance with very little body roll.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Renegade &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I currently autocross and recently swithced to Victoracers, with the Mugen 26mm rear bar and Azenis it handled perfect, but now with the victoracers I can't keep the rear planted, it swings out too easy. I tried adjusting the suspension and tire pressure but it has no effect on the rotation.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

What tire pressures did you start with and what did you change to?
What shock settings did you start with and what did you change to?

 

for shock of 3 settings on compression and variable on rebound
1 : 1.5F / 2 R
2: 1.5F / 1.5 R
3. 1.5F / &lt;1 R

Tire pressures
1: 40f / 40r
2: 40f / 38r
3: 38f / 38r

None of the changes changed the rotation, even with little throttle the tail would come out everytime.

Wai - do you still have the front sway bar?

 

The tire pressures seem a bit high to me. I would be more inclined to run something like 35lb in the rear to combat oversteer. I would also consider softer in the front but if it's not pushing then leave it be.

If you car was balanced on Azenis then I would guess that when you switched to R tires the front end gained considerably more grip then the back end resulting in more oversteer. Not a bad problem in my book, much easier to fix then understeer.

Also, your driving style might also be the source of the unwanted oversteer as well. Depending on how sharply you turn in or where you brake or lift will effect how much oversteer you get.

If you want I can ride along in your car at the next event and see how the car is handling first hand and you can also ride/drive my car for comparison.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Renegade &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">None of the changes changed the rotation, even with little throttle the tail would come out everytime.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Try an alignment with something like 1/8" total toe out up front and 0 toe in the rear.
Should help correct some of the push/understeer and keep the rear placed a little better.