Can the ITR abs system work on a 94 ex coupe that has GSR rear disc conversion? what is all that is needed?

 

wrong forum sorry buddy!

 

if that one guy can make ITR ABS work on his EF then you can definitely make it work on your EG. the problem is that he used the whole 5-lug conversion on his EF and you only have GS-R brakes. You might have to use GS-R ABS sensors because of that, and that might cause problems because the ITR abs computer might or might not work with the signals from the GS-R sensors. your best bet would be to use a matching set of ABS equipment and brakes (ie. ITR ABS with 5-lug, GS-R ABS with 4-lug).

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by YumVTEC &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">if that one guy can make ITR ABS work on his EF then you can definitely make it work on your EG. the problem is that he used the whole 5-lug conversion on his EF and you only have GS-R brakes. You might have to use GS-R ABS sensors because of that, and that might cause problems because the ITR abs computer might or might not work with the signals from the GS-R sensors. your best bet would be to use a matching set of ABS equipment and brakes (ie. ITR ABS with 5-lug, GS-R ABS with 4-lug).</TD></TR></TABLE>


Not being a smartass I really wanna know, but what would being 5 lug vs 4 lug have to do with anything?

 

Nothing, as long as the car has the correct pieces. The gentlemen he was talking about swapped the entire braking system off a 5 lug car. If the car you are getting the parts off is 4 lug it shouldn't matter if it is 4-lug or 5 lug.

If you can mount the sensors, and the sensors are made for the same size brake disc /caliper combo it should work.

 

No, it can deffentally be done

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by YumVTEC &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">if that one guy can make ITR ABS work on his EF then you can definitely make it work on your EG. the problem is that he used the whole 5-lug conversion on his EF and you only have GS-R brakes. You might have to use GS-R ABS sensors because of that, and that might cause problems because the ITR abs computer might or might not work with the signals from the GS-R sensors. your best bet would be to use a matching set of ABS equipment and brakes (ie. ITR ABS with 5-lug, GS-R ABS with 4-lug).</TD></TR></TABLE>

The guy you refer to is Ken aka "Black R", should have any info you need

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by HybridHatch88 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

The guy you refer to is Ken aka "Black R", should have any info you need</TD></TR></TABLE>

I pmed him before I even made this thread. he isnt all that friendly. so I just created a post.

 

the reason i say that ITR abs might not work with GS-R brakes and sensors is because the algorithms stored in the ITR abs computer are for input from ITR ABS sensors on ITR sized discs on the front and rear (11.1" front and 10" rear, might be mistaken, it's been a long time since i owned my 5-lug ek). this means that mixing and matching the ITR and GS-R ABS systems & brakes could have some funky results, the ITR abs computer might throw a code, or the system might not work the way it's supposed to since the wrong sized discs are being used.

 

Why?

ABS would be almost pointless on a CRX/Civic.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Driven &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Why?

ABS would be almost pointless on a CRX/Civic.

</TD></TR></TABLE>
exactly, the car's too light

 

As long as the number and width of "teeth" that the sensor reads is the same on the itr compared to the gsr, it would be fine right? The teeth are on the part that the wheel that the studs are in, not the brake rotor itself, correct?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Driven &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Why?

ABS would be almost pointless on a CRX/Civic.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

is that why honda of japan had ALB (ABS) as an option on the SiR EF8's and EF9's in Japan, because it's pointless?

-T

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by YumVTEC &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">the reason i say that ITR abs might not work with GS-R brakes and sensors is because the algorithms stored in the ITR abs computer are for input from ITR ABS sensors on ITR sized discs on the front and rear (11.1" front and 10" rear, might be mistaken, it's been a long time since i owned my 5-lug ek). this means that mixing and matching the ITR and GS-R ABS systems & brakes could have some funky results, the ITR abs computer might throw a code, or the system might not work the way it's supposed to since the wrong sized discs are being used.</TD></TR></TABLE>

You make some good points. The only thing I would add is the computer probably has programmed into it the weight of the car. A couple of posts up I said the basically same thing your saying. The ABS computer is programmed to a certain size brake disc /caliper combo.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by notfastenough &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">As long as the number and width of "teeth" that the sensor reads is the same on the itr compared to the gsr, it would be fine right? The teeth are on the part that the wheel that the studs are in, not the brake rotor itself, correct? </TD></TR></TABLE>

Brake discs /caliper size is programmed into the ABS computer. Another issue would be if there's a big weight difference between the donor car and target car.

 

I was un aware of that. Thanks Alan.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by YumVTEC &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

is that why honda of japan had ALB (ABS) as an option on the SiR EF8's and EF9's in Japan, because it's pointless?

-T</TD></TR></TABLE>
so, because it was available, makes it worthwhile?


The car is too light to make use of the ABS. Plus, iirc, the system was a poor design to say the least and didn't improve stopping distance whatsoever.

So, yes, it IS almost pointless on a CRX/Civic.


oh, and my old Si came with a rear wiper, it has never been useful.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Driven &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
so, because it was available, makes it worthwhile?


The car is too light to make use of the ABS. Plus, iirc, the system was a poor design to say the least and didn't improve stopping distance whatsoever.

So, yes, it IS almost pointless on a CRX/Civic.


oh, and my old Si came with a rear wiper, it has never been useful. </TD></TR></TABLE>

how is being light a disadvantahe when talking about stopping and ABS?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Ateyour2JZ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

how is being light a disadvantahe when talking about stopping and ABS?</TD></TR></TABLE>
not a disadvantage at all.

ABS wouldn't be very functional on a light car. It's almost a hinderance to have ABS, because of the excessive weight ABS adds.

I'm trying to find the link/thread regarding ABS and light cars. It had a lot of good technical aspects to it. Some involving how the mass of a vehicle and how quickly/slowly the ABS pulsates to counteract any brake lock-up scenario.

someone brought up how most, if not all, motorcycles lack ABS...the additional weight would increase stopping distances, rather than the lighter mass having the brakes being used at the threshold of lock-up.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Driven &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
not a disadvantage at all.

ABS wouldn't be very functional on a light car. It's almost a hinderance to have ABS, because of the excessive weight ABS adds.

I'm trying to find the link/thread regarding ABS and light cars. It had a lot of good technical aspects to it. Some involving how the mass of a vehicle and how quickly/slowly the ABS pulsates to counteract any brake lock-up scenario.

someone brought up how most, if not all, motorcycles lack ABS...the additional weight would increase stopping distances, rather than the lighter mass having the brakes being used at the threshold of lock-up. </TD></TR></TABLE>

if its not too much trouble please find me that thread, I really need to understand teh logic behind it because it doesnt make sense to me. some GSR's have ABS, and both ABS and non ABS gsr's weight more than Civics. and they do stop better. so does my Ls1 trans am that weights 3390 stock. Im really trying to understand how the extra weight ( which would still make it less than a non ABS GSR) would make stopping distance longer.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Ateyour2JZ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">if its not too much trouble please find me that thread, I really need to understand teh logic behind it because it doesnt make sense to me. some GSR's have ABS, and both ABS and non ABS gsr's weight more than Civics. and they do stop better. so does my Ls1 trans am that weights 3390 stock. Im really trying to understand how the extra weight ( which would still make it less than a non ABS GSR) would make stopping distance longer.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I think you're misunderstanding.

Take a '88-'91 CRX or Civic (this IS the forum you posted in).
with the exact chassis, do a brake test from 60mph.
Record results, rinse and repeat.

Add ABS
do the same.

In a CRX/Civic, it will not reduce braking distances, because the added hardware INCREASES the amount of mass it has to effectively bring to a standstill.

This is NOT about Fbodys, 92-95 civics, Thunderbirds, or Silverados.

it's about CRXs and Civics with identical tyres and options. You can't compare a GSR vs Civic.. two different chassis, two different tyres and tyre sizes.

In case you missed it, in a CRX/Civic, it would not be worthwhile. Why? Weight.

I wish i could find the thread regarding it. It was crx forum piece too.

Also, the Lotus Elise lacked ABS (and booster) for several years, until the vehicle weight ballooned to 1800lbs+. They believed that due to the low weight, the ABS would just become more of an irritation, as it would interfere under hard braking and the low weight of the car would cause the ABS to kick in prematurely.

 

I understand what you are saying with added weight I just dont beleive its accurate. if we did your tests, with that car, and then we added a AEM Big brake kit all the way around ( non abs) the car would be heavier and I am 100% sure it would stop better. I also know for a fact that ABS gsr's that have the same options as a non abs version only weigh 22 lbs more. thats the same options ( leather, seats, etc etc) I agree that weight would be added but stopping performance would be greatly increased to more than compensate. its not like weight is added an stopping power is not increased. I hate to bring up fbodies but Its the only true factual example I can give.. v6's f bods have the SAME suspension and brakes as the v8's (97-02) and weight about 400 lbs less and still cant stop like a full optioned Trans am or z28... lets keep this debate going until u find that thread. if some how u are right I need to be certain.. please find it.


Modified by Ateyour2JZ at 11:20 PM 12/12/2003

 

Just throwing out a question….

Would ABS “help” a car (street) with say braking on WET, uneven pavement and ICY surfaces over a car that’s non-abs?

Consider it would be for the street, not the race track…

Street has allot more dangers… The racetrack usually has better overall pavement surfaces (or at least surfaces that you get to know after a few laps). A big plus for the race track is the fact everyone’s going the SAME way…( Unlike the street in which you have ten-thousand people all going every which way.)

On the street you have allot of distractions..(Radio, other passengers talking to you, the honey do list, the shopping list, the pick up the kids list.. and of course having to deal with drivers that are turning in front of you (or coming head on at you!) at the last moment with no turn signal while the guy /gall is talking on the phone while their reading their newspaper in one of those 9,000lb land yachts they call SUV’s, … and of course kids, and dogs which run out in front of you.

Also throw into the mix a driver that is NOT used to “threshold braking” and next turn always has the potential of say a tree laying across the road, or a kid running out from between parked cars and such… Would a car with ABS be better on uneven, wet, and/or icy pavement?

 

Alan I know for a fact that ABS helps on the street in the rain thats why I want it. when i first got my trans am, something broke, something silly I forgot what it was. anyway it was covered under warranty so i took it to the dealership but I was only 20 and In Florida you have to be 25 to rent a car. so the dealership gave me dodge neon that was for sale on the lot.( traded in car) and i had the neon for like 4 days.

Well one night it rained and I was on my way home and and my turn was coming up. but before I got to it I had to go over a big incline/bridge. the Florida turnpike ran underneath. so I went over it going like 45 and when I got to the top I took my foot of the gas and let the momentum coast me down the botom. well I was rolling to fast and I stepped on teh brake but it wasnt slowing down fast enoght so i stepped as hard as i could and the wheels locked and I slid into the curb ( didnt think to pump the brakes) the neon jumped curve, but nothing broke. teh rain held up for that week and when I got my trans am back I found myself in The situation again but I was actually going faster than in the neon ( ls1's stiff suspension makes 60mph feel like 30) and u know what happened? the car stopped like the road was BONE DRY!!. to this day I have yet to skid in the rain with it. as heavy as it is. and twice this week my civic ex skid in the rain when the wheels locked. I have personally experinced teh difference between an abs car and a non abs car and I can assure you. its not hype. matter of fact I have NEVER skidded with the trans am at all. many times I have been driving over 60 and not paying attention and was about to miss my turn and I step hard on the brakes and the car doesnt skid. nor do u hear tires screeching. it just slows down very abrubtly and you feel like your about to fly threw the windshiled. ABS rocks!!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Driven &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
oh, and my old Si came with a rear wiper, it has never been useful. </TD></TR></TABLE>

the snow on my rear window this morning as I was in a hurry to leave for work (no time to scrape) made me wish I had a rear wiper on my 90 Std. everything is there for a purpose, albeit small and insignificant, the rear wiper and ALB definitely had a purpose.