Sometime this coming spring I will be purchasing either a turbo for my R, or a set of ITB's and all the associated all-motor goodies. What I need to find out is which will be better for me and my car. As of now the car is stock with the exception of bolt-ons and serious weight reduction with an AEM EMS coming either in January or Febuary. The car is driven daily, but really is more of a track car in it's present condition and will stay that way.

So far I've been leaning toward a good turbo setup. I've been in contact with Full-Race about their kits and from what I've seen they are engineered better and offer a few additional benefits when compared to most off-the-shelf turbo kits.

I've also kept up with a few all-motor cars and the setups they have (like Len's beautiful ITB setup) and am wondering if this would be a better route to approach when building my car.

I don't have crazy power expectations, but I do however want to see my car keeping up with and beating much faster cars at the strip while maintaining the car's ability to handle well.

I know there is the possibility for a lot of debate in this area, so bring it on, I need to make a decision.

 

I wouldn't daily drive either setup....but that's just my opinion.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jdmspoonitr &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I wouldn't daily drive either setup....but that's just my opinion.</TD></TR></TABLE>

completely agreed.. unles you have gobs of money to tune either setup and still manage an alright mpg [user len gets damn good gas mileage for his itb setup imo] then I guess you could go for it..

 

you're comparing apples to oranges

are you talking about just getting ITBs or an all motor beast?

 

Yes, I have, within easy reach, the ability to have either setup tuned practically to perfection. A shop down here in Miami, run by some of my good friends, is putting in a full service dyno and associated facilites next month that I will get to use practially for free, so tuning is not a problem.


Modified by dc231 at 10:33 PM 12/9/2003

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Hybrid ctr &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">you're comparing apples to oranges

are you talking about just getting ITBs or an all motor beast?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Either setup would be getting the whole nine yards: block work, head work, cams, and all the associated bits and pieces.

 

Keep in mind that ITB setups are pretty delicate when it comes to tuning. Temperature changes, humidity changes can both effect how your car runs. So you might want to think about that before you go throwing ten grand into something.

 

what your hp goal? is money an issue? cause anytime you want lots of hp, it can cost a good $$$$ even if everything goes perfect. i'd recommend turbo either way, but in general, you won't match the powerband you could have with turbo with all motor.. turbo should give more torque and smaller turbo if you don't require much hp could really improve overall powerband

 

Horsepower goals are non-existant, and as for the money issue, I'm trying to keep the whole project (block, head, and particular setup) to less than $10,000. But I will already have things like the EMS in the car so it will not count toward the monetary limit.

 

Obviously, you'll get more HP with the turbo, maybe even twice as much as with N/A and ITB's for that amount of money ...

 

What are your goals? Besides spending money, that is...

 

If I absolutely had to choose one I'd boost it. Reason being that you can start with 4 or 5 grand and get a decent setup and then you can replace certain parts with relative ease to get the characteristics you want.

If you did the ITB setup it'd be in one shot.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dc231 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Horsepower goals are non-existant, and as for the money issue, I'm trying to keep the whole project (block, head, and particular setup) to less than $10,000. But I will already have things like the EMS in the car so it will not count toward the monetary limit.</TD></TR></TABLE>

reason i ask is so you may get suggestion on what to get.. at least i can help as far as turbo goes.. - since every hp level requires certain upgrades/specs-sizes on parts. lets say with 200's (i'd say low 200's) you could have a pretty reliable turbo setup on stock motor.. if you want 300's then you might need to do engine work and etc.

 

i think you should raise your cr with pistons, leave the rest of the block alone. take the head off for a good p&p and valve job, get a set of jun3, toda valvetrain, and itbs other than twm. with an aem standalone you will be making more than enough power for your car and you wont spend nearly 10k for that.

you will need to build your block up to run a reliable turbo setup... and when you start messing with the sleeves you encounter problems imho.

an na itb setup will be faster than a turbo on the race track, but maybe not the dragstrip.

one of my freinds raced a fully built turbo itr with his supra that was running mid to low 12s... the itr owner manually raised the boost before the race and won by about a car length from 40-140. i was following behind them in my friends rx7 and the itr nearly crashed into the supra the torque steer was so bad, the r was on race compounds.

i vote for itbs, you dont own a drag car, maximize its all-around potential. plus save weight rather than adding it.

 

That's a very good point. I'm very familiar with turbos and the ability to upgrade while you upgrade if you know what I mean, but ITB's are a relatively new concept to me. I've known about them and their capabilities for a while, but what I don't know is: Assuming I go ahead and buy a set of ITB's and a good header, would it be safe to go ahead and install them on my stock motor and tune it. And then when I get the head done, can I retune it and go, and then again when I get the block built, and again when I get the good cams, etc. Like I said earlier, I'm new to ITB's.

 

euclid, is there something wrong with the TWM ITB's that I should be aware of? Should I research other companies like Hayward Performance, or should I put a few more paychecks back and go Toda?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dc231 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">euclid, is there something wrong with the TWM ITB's that I should be aware of? Should I research other companies like Hayward Performance, or should I put a few more paychecks back and go Toda?</TD></TR></TABLE>
they have a tendency to stick, check out jenvey, heard good things

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Hybrid ctr &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
they have a tendency to stick, check out jenvey, heard good things </TD></TR></TABLE>

Alright, thanks a lot.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dc231 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">That's a very good point. I'm very familiar with turbos and the ability to upgrade while you upgrade if you know what I mean, but ITB's are a relatively new concept to me. I've known about them and their capabilities for a while, but what I don't know is: Assuming I go ahead and buy a set of ITB's and a good header, would it be safe to go ahead and install them on my stock motor and tune it. And then when I get the head done, can I retune it and go, and then again when I get the block built, and again when I get the good cams, etc. Like I said earlier, I'm new to ITB's.</TD></TR></TABLE>

yes, i spent about 2 weeks researching an itb setup, the main limitation is the map sensor with the stock ecu, you will need to use a vaccum log to link all 4 runners for the itbs together, this will create one large vaccum source for the brake booster and the map sensor to run off.... the log needs to big enough to smooth out the pulsations coming from the 4 runners, about the size of soda can.
the air temp sensor can be mounted to the firewall directly in front of the horns to get a temp reading. the cold idle valve still needs to recieve coolant to fool the ecu but can mounted to the firewall too.

with this setup you can retain the stock ecu with a piggyback if you know someone good enough to tune it. but an aem standalone would be better, it will allow you to program different fuel/ignition maps as the intake temp changes too which is a plus.

i dont know for sure but i would assume you can run itbs with a stock engine. the comression ratio should really be raised though.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Hybrid ctr &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
they have a tendency to stick, check out jenvey, heard good things </TD></TR></TABLE>




jenvey is the way to go. i think toda is overpriced at over 2500$

edit: hayward will tap the runners and fab up a vaccum log for you too. christian used to run this same setup with success.

 

The AEM EMS is a definate regardless of which setup I use, and do you think that just moving to something like the Spoon headgasket would yield enough compression to run on the stock motor, or would you go ahead and change the pistons?

 

i really dont know about usdm cr. i was going to run thinner headgasket on my jdm itr longblock which was 11.1:1 to see how it felt before i commited to new pistons. but i never got the chance to start building the motor so i really cant give you any more info than i have.

from my experience a turbo is a cheap way to get power on a bseries but there are serious drawbacks... itb would require more planning and tuning but i think it suits the car better. i was set on getting those jenveys.

my close friend just spent almost 4k on a nice turbo setup for his b18b and although it is fairly fast i wouldnt recommend going the same route unless you are only concerned about highway and straightline driving.

i know my motor would not have been able to handle boost with my drving style. but other itr owners have sucessfully built serious turbo setups too.

 

Thanks for your help.

If anyone knows anything about running ITB's on a stock ITR motor, please let me know.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dc231 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Yes, I have, within easy reach, the ability to have either tuned practically to perfection. A shop down here in Miami, run by some of my good friends, is putting in a full service dyno and associated facilites next month that I will get to use practially for free, so tuning is not a problem.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Just because you have a dyno, doesnt mean that you can tune. IMO, I would stay away from any "new" dyno tuners until they learn and prove that they know what they are doing. I have been to one dyno shop that didnt even have a timing gun and another that was Very confused as to what I was doing with my Adj. Cam Gears.

Oh, I would go with boost.

 

boost, hands down.