i went to a local shop just the other week, talked to the mechanic about installing pistons. i want to install a set of pr3's in my ls block but he told me that he wouldn't do it unless i get my block honed and cleaned first. something about doing it right, proper sealing or something. and since i dont have the dough to take out my motor and get it done, here's where the question comes in, i really want the high CR of the pr3's my question IS can you, and will it be safe to install pistons w/out getting your block honed? oh i dont plan to rev it pass 7500 if that helps.

 

You have to get it honed, but you dont have to take out the motor to do it. For boring you do.

 

it's becuase they dont hone it. they send it out to get it done, so taking out the motor is required

 

I can only give you a suggestion.......Do not install the pistons with out honing the block......If the block has alot of miles on it . You will have problems with the rings seating properly and also you will have a smoker on your hands.....Just save your money and get it done correctley.....

 

I am with RS on this one. You don't have to pull the motor, or even the crank if the guy is careful. I have a guy down here that does portable machining-boring/honing/whatever (Casey's Portable Boring 714-952-7811). Perhaps you have someone up there that offers the same service? Ask around. Or you could call Casey and ask him if he knows someone in NorCal...

 

my friend and i honed his block in the car, and put pistons in with it in the car too, y dont you just do it all yourself, buy the proper hone and throw it on a drill up and down 30 times and ur walls are deglazed. done, pistons are just as easy

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by b19coupe &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I am with RS on this one. You don't have to pull the motor, or even the crank if the guy is careful. I have a guy down here that does portable machining-boring/honing/whatever (Casey's Portable Boring 714-952-7811). Perhaps you have someone up there that offers the same service? Ask around. Or you could call Casey and ask him if he knows someone in NorCal...</TD></TR></TABLE>

First time I've heard of this, whats the charge, it must be twice what it costs bringing it to a machine shop.

 

It's actually pretty reasonable. More than bringing your block to a machine shop, but it is very convenient.

 

if that's the case does anyone know a good shop in the bay that'll hone and install pistons w/out pulling out the motor?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by hybridvteceg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">my friend and i honed his block in the car, and put pistons in with it in the car too, y dont you just do it all yourself, buy the proper hone and throw it on a drill up and down 30 times and ur walls are deglazed. done, pistons are just as easy</TD></TR></TABLE>

 

no time, got college and work, plus i have little experience dont want to mess up my motor

 

save your money and do it right man, you will be pissed at yourself later on down the road when you have problems cause you didn't do it right

 

Here's another twist.

If your cylinders are not scored you don't need to hone them. Just clean the cylinders with WD40 and scrape off the carbon at the very top of the cylinder and use a new set of Honda OE rings and your golden.

If you don't beleive me then you can refer to the Helms manual which also states what I just stated. I've seen this done a couple times and all times it has worked awesome.

This is what Omniman did with the 14 yr old B16A block in our 200whp B16 Project car.

 

what do you mean by score? so there is a way where i dont need to hone the cylinders to install pistons?

 

if your cylinder walls are perfectly smooth and there are no marks going up and down you will not have to hone it. Its recommended but not a neccesitty.

And whats the big deal about pulling a motor? If your installing pistons then everything has to come out to put them in, why just leave the block sitting in the car with everything else removed, i dont grasp this reasoning..someone enlighten me please.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by phatrick2332 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">And whats the big deal about pulling a motor? If your installing pistons then everything has to come out to put them in, why just leave the block sitting in the car with everything else removed, i dont grasp this reasoning..someone enlighten me please.</TD></TR></TABLE>

You would only need to pull the head and oil pan to install pistons.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Rocket &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Here's another twist.

If your cylinders are not scored you don't need to hone them. Just clean the cylinders with WD40 and scrape off the carbon at the very top of the cylinder and use a new set of Honda OE rings and your golden.

If you don't beleive me then you can refer to the Helms manual which also states what I just stated. I've seen this done a couple times and all times it has worked awesome.

This is what Omniman did with the 14 yr old B16A block in our 200whp B16 Project car.</TD></TR></TABLE>
that's what i'm going to do when i enlarge the valve reliefs, in my b20z bottomend

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Jim Truett &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

You would only need to pull the head and oil pan to install pistons.</TD></TR></TABLE>

If the heads off, why not just remove the last couple bolts for mounts and take the tranny off and make life easier, Its alot easier to check tolerences when ur not laying on ur back under a honda.

i guess i like doing things the hard way

 

Just go to a parts store and borrow/rent the hone device with all the small stones on little sticks (what is this type called?) and do it yourself. Get some honing oil too. Do NOT use the 3 blade type honers.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Rocket &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Here's another twist.

If your cylinders are not scored you don't need to hone them. Just clean the cylinders with WD40 and scrape off the carbon at the very top of the cylinder and use a new set of Honda OE rings and your golden.

If you don't beleive me then you can refer to the Helms manual which also states what I just stated. I've seen this done a couple times and all times it has worked awesome.

This is what Omniman did with the 14 yr old B16A block in our 200whp B16 Project car.</TD></TR></TABLE> Rocket to the rescue again!!!!..........just wanna say thanks for all your input on this forum, you're a great asset. Keep it up!.........John

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by REVHARD_EF &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Just go to a parts store and borrow/rent the hone device with all the small stones on little sticks (what is this type called?) and do it yourself. </TD></TR></TABLE>

It's called a bottle brush hone...

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by REVHARD_EF &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> Get some honing oil too. Do NOT use the 3 blade type honers.</TD></TR></TABLE>

What's your reasoning for not using 3 stone hones? Not meaning to jack a thread but I'm doing this in the next day or two with a 3 stone, just curious about your logic...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by djurbang &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

It's called a bottle brush hone...

What's your reasoning for not using 3 stone hones? Not meaning to jack a thread but I'm doing this in the next day or two with a 3 stone, just curious about your logic...</TD></TR></TABLE>

Its simple, and any seasoned engine builder should know this. The 3 stone "hone" is used for removing small imperfections in the cylinder walls. Little lines, etc that are not deep enough to warrant boring the block. The bottle brush hone is designed to restore the 60 degree (varies by manufacture) cross hatch pattern. Most people don't understand the reasoning behind the cross hatch or why its important. Its also very important to follow the directions of the manufacture to obtain the correct angle. The purpose of the cross hatch is to allow the cylinder walls to hold some oil. If you get it too steep, the oil runs right off and back into the crankcase. If you get it too flat, then the oil will build up on the sides and could lead to smoking issues. Again, the three stone hone is not designed to restore this type of finish and should not be used to finish cylinder walls prior to installing new rings.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by phatrick2332 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If the heads off, why not just remove the last couple bolts for mounts and take the tranny off </TD></TR></TABLE> HA, the last few bolts? like the axles, the engine mounts, the wiring harness or connections, the shift linkage, etc...
NO thanks.

hello bottle hone tool!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Hybrid93Eg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Its simple, and any seasoned engine builder should know this. The 3 stone "hone" is used for removing small imperfections in the cylinder walls. Little lines, etc that are not deep enough to warrant boring the block. The bottle brush hone is designed to restore the 60 degree (varies by manufacture) cross hatch pattern. Most people don't understand the reasoning behind the cross hatch or why its important. Its also very important to follow the directions of the manufacture to obtain the correct angle. The purpose of the cross hatch is to allow the cylinder walls to hold some oil. If you get it too steep, the oil runs right off and back into the crankcase. If you get it too flat, then the oil will build up on the sides and could lead to smoking issues. Again, the three stone hone is not designed to restore this type of finish and should not be used to finish cylinder walls prior to installing new rings.</TD></TR></TABLE>

i'm by far a seasoned engine builder, lol, this is only my second re-build. I was under the impression that at the correct speed and up/down variation that a 3 stone hone would still restore that oh so important 50-60 degree crosshatch. I fully understand the importance of the ring seating and cross hatch pattern. The whole reason I was asking what the reason to avoid this because out of all the posts i've read on honing this is the first one that noted to stay completely away from honing with a "3 stone."

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by djurbang &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

i'm by far a seasoned engine builder, lol, this is only my second re-build. I was under the impression that at the correct speed and up/down variation that a 3 stone hone would still restore that oh so important 50-60 degree crosshatch. I fully understand the importance of the ring seating and cross hatch pattern. The whole reason I was asking what the reason to avoid this because out of all the posts i've read on honing this is the first one that noted to stay completely away from honing with a "3 stone."</TD></TR></TABLE>

I shouldn't have said to completely avoid it. That was my mistake. I should have said that it would be preffered to use the ball hone, if available. I have used the 3 stone a few times when I had no access to a ball hone.