I'm on the my quest for my last mods. Specifically, I'm finishing up with suspension mods. I already have the Mugen Lowdowns and the stock swaybars and front strut tower bar. I mainly use the car for daily driving and autoX. I'd like to get the car to rotate easier. I did a search and found that people have recommended a smaller front swaybar (ls swaybar).

So, here's what I'm looking at:
Option 1: Mugen Front and Rear Tower bars and Mugen Rear Swaybar (26 mm)
or
Option 2: Mugen Rear Tower bar and Mugen Rear Swaybar (26 mm)

(ok new option)
Option 3: Just the Mugen Rear Swaybar (26 mm)

Now if I go with Option 1, will I still get enough rotation? Or should I just save my money and go with option 2?

I'd like to go with Option 1 so the front and rear bars match, but if the Mugen Front bar will make the car understeer too much, then I'll go with option 2..

Which one would you recommend for daily driving/autoX ?



[Modified by arren123, 7:13 PM 9/18/2001]

 

uhmm.. I think you are confusing the Strut Tower Bars with Sway bars.. the Sway bars are 26mm.. anyways, I'd vote for the 26mm rear sway bar first, and work on it from there. But I'll let those who have done this already speak

 

Oops! you're right.. I was typing too fast.. (what was I thinking?) corrected.. thanks.

So, just the rear swaybar would by sufficient? I was thinking of buying everything at once so I'd save on shipping this time.




[Modified by arren123, 6:54 PM 9/18/2001]

 

I don't think rotation will be a problem with just the rear anit-swaybar. It will give you PLENTY of rotation for auto-x. If you have the money, get them all. It's always nice to save on shipping

 

Damn VD, only 70 posts? you need to p0st wh0re at work like me

 

You'll have a lot more rotation with the rear 26mm. Just be careful cause it'll be easier to put the car into a 4 wheel drift. Get the mugen tower if you want to stiffen the chassis....but since the R already comes with a good front one, just get the rear sway and put the other cash to maybe a spoon lower front bar instead.

 

Cool.. I'll take your suggestions (and save my money) and just try the rear sway bar first.

If the car did go into a 4 wheel drift, how might you get out of it? Same as understeer - let of the throttle and uncrank the wheel a bit?

 

noooooooooo that will make you spin. After you get that bar, go to some autocrosses or a empty parking lot at night (you risk a problem with the law on the second oen tho) and practice.

Basically if the back end starts to come around, you'll want to apply a LITTLE more gas (ie, don't floor it) and countersteer a little (don't turn the wheel to the full lock). It'll take some practice but you'll learn to control oversteer without thinking about it.

 

The lowdowns will give you about 1.5 degree negative camber minimum. i would suggest getting both front and rear sway-bars (26mm each). You will have not problem turning the car! Then when you have the money you can get both strut tower bars. This will keep the balance of the car. You will be able to dial in oversteer with the lowdown's adjustment and tire pressure. this will make the car VERY tight and you will wonder what has been keeping you from doing this sooner, oh yea, money. with this you will be able to drift all 4 wheels confidently and consistently when you what and more importantly when you don't want. i only have experiance with mugen's setup so i can't comment on spoon's products. i know they are just as high a quality and can only suggest the same approach to the suspension.

 

Skip the _strut bars_... they don't really help out much. Go with _rear sway bar_ (26mm). Then, if it feels too tail happy, get the front sway bar.

 

I agree completely. Suspension tuning really isn't tooooo difficult for a street car. I would do what Cosworth said, get the 26mm rear bar for now, then if it's bad, get the front bar. What what I hear, the car favors understeer with both bars on and stock or mugen lowdown suspension, but this may not be a bad thing in your case, it all depends on exactly what you want.

 

I am currently running the same (lowdowns) I do have the 26mm rear bar
my tech still recommends getting the LS front bar for autox ( he has built several
SCCA national champion cars)

p.s. the car does feel a little different with the mugen rear bar but
well worth the $$$$

 

i read that the jun autocross car uses NO front sway bar..ive never seen this car at an event..how does it perform?

 

arren123,
Next time you are at Englishtown, I'll try and take you for a ride. You will be surprised at how much rotation you can get in the stock car with the correct tire pressures and the correct technique (lift off-throttle or left foot braking). BUT, I do agree, suspension changes can make rotation easier. Since I have to remain stock for autocross, I would get an LS front sway bar to get easier rotation and just deal with more body roll up front. In your case, maybe keeping stock front sway and just getting the 26mm bar in back will be sufficient. I rather see you do things in stages than all at once. If you get the Mugen front and rear, you will not know if just the rear was sufficient.

 

Cool.. Sounds like a plan.. i'll get the lower sway bar and work on my technique at autocross.
I probably won't be in Englishtown until November because of my work schedule.

 

Ahh.. I checked my budget and saw that I could buy it now. I just placed my order.
Hopefully, I'll like this setup better

 

I have Apex-i N-1s, Stock ITR front Strut brace and JDM rear strut brace and Mugen 26mm saybar. By far the best improvement in the way the car felt was installing the Mugen rear swaybar. It makes the car so easy to rotate.

I keep reading 4 wheel drift, I want to verify what your talking about. When the tailend starts to rotate and you have to add a bit of countersteer to correct that would be the car rotating? But if all 4 wheels where in a controlled slide or drift that would be a 4 wheel drift? I would think that adding the rear bar only would help with rotating were adding bars at the front and rear would get the car to handle more neutral, hence slide?

Mattj

 

Dropspeed,
I am similarily confused. In one autocross, there was a tight turn after a fast section. I would turn, lift off, get the back out, and get on the gas. During this, the back would come out, but since I was on the gas, the whole car was "drifting". But, I consider it more like controlled oversteer. Especially, since the front wheels were turned slightly into the skid. I think 4 wheel drifting is more of a steady state (neutral) slide that occurs when the all wheels are sliding at the same rate. Not understeer, not oversteer, just neutral slide. Which would seem difficult to do since our ITR's have a tendency for under or over steer, not neutral. I agree that maybe the only way to get a "4 wheel drift" would be the perfect combination on shocks and swaybar to counteract the natural tendancy for understeer.