(b series hydro trannies vs itr..... differences and similarities? (Building a "better than itr" tr)

This isn't your usual post asking about gear ratios or the like.

This is a question of a different nature...

Basically, I'm interested in the casings and syncro's more than anything else.

Unfortunately, I havent played around with the internals of any trannies other than the itr.

Now just suppose I was going to take a b series hydro tranny and try to make it better than the usdm or even jdm itr tranny. What would be good to start with? 99-00 si? gsr? And why?

I would basically be using the following parts:

aftermarket lsd
jdm 1st gear
jdm or ats final drive
aftermarket 3,4,5 gearset

Now should I use itr 2nd gear, or 99 si 2nd gear (trick question)?

What else?

And what of the rumors of more syncro's on certain gears for the itr?

 

damn mr super hybrid RRR tranny user thinker upper. i haven't myself messed with swapping gears or anything to B-Series trannies. but i can asure you Honda has hours up the tin yang on R&D for thier trannies. the only thing i could see benefitting from is the JDM FD

 

I intentionally didn't mention specifics on what gearing I would be going with or why. I didn't want to open up a debate on what the "best" setup is. That is purely subjective, and depends on the intended usage. I've pretty much got an idea of what ratios and final drive I want for a tranny already.

I agree with you that honda does a lot of r&d on their trannies. BUT, they also have to sell to a consumer market - one that is a fat assed american one at that. Hence, we get a shittier final drive, and ac + ps, power windows, etc...

I am willing to live with higher rpm's in top gear - it is a small sacrifice for me since I'd have better acceleration in every gear.

The reason I'm asking, is I don't want to use a perfectly good stock usdm itr tranny if I'm replacing the lsd, the final drive, and gears 1,3,4,5..... It's be quite a waste. So if I can pick up say a 99 si tranny with a blown diff and put all my goodies in it, why not? As long as it's got as many syncro's, etc... See my point?

 

sometimes the casing for the b16a hydro trannies allegedly has to be 'massaged' to fit the larger b18c-sized differential (stock, or aftermarket), and i suppose that the larger diff can theoretically hold more power, though i've never heard of anyone (even 600 whp turbo drag cars, etc.) breaking the smaller b16a-sized quaife lsd (which will also weigh less, coincidentally).

itr/ctr/b16a hydro 2nd gears are all the same ratio.

i've never seen the inside of a b16a tranny, but supposedly they might have single-cone synchros on some of the gears on which itr/ctr trannies have dual-cones.

the 98-01 4.786 jdm fd might just be larger (than 95.5-97 and usdm 4.4 fd) to account for the stock 16" wheels on the 98-01 jdm itr, which effectively reduce the fd. (note that the CTR with its weaker 1.6L engine, which could prolly better utilize the larger fd to reach is 'sweet spot' in the power band faster, still has the 4.4 fd; it also has 15" wheels.)

1st gear is usually a waste, save for "heating up" the tires for better grip . without discipline, 2nd and 3rd gears can be as well, if you're making good power. depending on wheel/tire size, power output, and intended usage, i'd either stick to the 4.4 fd with quaife lsd (hard to break, low maintenance, good warranty) and ATS close 3-5 gears, or jdm or ATS fd with stock b16a/usdm itr ratio gears. keep in mind that ATS has acknowledged complaints that their 3rd gear in the close gear set has broken, so they now offer a reinforced version (for more $, of course).

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Black R &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Now should I use itr 2nd gear, or 99 si 2nd gear (trick question)?
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Same 2nd gear.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Black R &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The reason I'm asking, is I don't want to use a perfectly good stock usdm itr tranny if I'm replacing the lsd, the final drive, and gears 1,3,4,5..... It's be quite a waste. </TD></TR></TABLE> waste? you can sell those internals for good money without much effort.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Black R &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">So if I can pick up say a 99 si tranny with a blown diff and put all my goodies in it, why not? As long as it's got as many syncro's, etc... See my point? </TD></TR></TABLE> kinda see your point but you are looking into buying damaged tranny that potentially has issues you wont notice... bearing races/seats worn out or damage to the case or shafts you need to keep. But they (B series hydro trannies) seem to be so similar that if you find a great deal on an older B16 one, go for it.

I dont think it gets better than a used ITR tranny, US or JDM, and then installing an ATS 4.9FD... I love mine and its almost the most favorite part of my car. The only improvement worthwhile in my opinion is swapping out the OEM ITR LSD for a Quaiffe/Kazz/ATS unit and selling the ITR LSD used for $400 or so to recoup some costs of the "better" LSD's

 

1. Not to be rude, but I really didn't want to open up the whole "what gears to use" debate. I already KNOW what I'm going with. Period.

2. Yes, the itr, ctr, and 99 si 2nd gear are all the same RATIO. Can anyone confirm if they are the same part #? I'm curious if the itr one is "hardened" or some other crap...

3. Yes, I will HAVE to replace 1st gear if I decide to put the jdm or ats final in. Why? Well the way 1st gear sits on the ring gear is different. You must use a jdm 1st gear for both. SAME RATIO as stock usdm 1st. Yes, I know. Although, it can be beneficial to go with a longer 1st gear (such as ats) since the rpm drop is worst on the stock 1-2 shift...

4. I already have an ats lsd I'll be using. So I would add the stock itr lsd to the parts pile..... along with stock itr 1,3,4,5 and final drive.

5. I already have a usdm itr tranny in my usdm itr WITH ats final drive. Yes, I know the benefits/ drawbacks. I have a stock usdm itr tranny in my hatch, and will be modifying this tranny or selling after I put the intended parts in a new tranny to swap out. I believe it would be easier to sell a good low mileage itr tranny complete - rather than the gears and lsd separately.