whats up i have a completly stock b18a1 engine and i want to get a stroker kit that would boost my compression to 12.5 running 94 octane all day ... they offer two types of kits for my engine the first keeping my liter 1.8 .... and the second raising my liter to 2.0 ... can someone explain to me the differences that i would feel ... and if there is any downfall to running a stroker kit and ways to improve a storker kits performance .... thnks

 

if you have a b18a1, and you want to go 2.0 you don't need a stroker kit.

All you need is to get that block sleeved by a machine shop (Golden Eagle, RS Machine, Bensons, Darton, AEBS, etc. etc...

For all motor you can use an 85mm bore with forged internals. That would be a solid block.

You'd go from:
stroke/bore/displacement
89mm/81mm/1834cc
-to-
89mm/85mm/2020cc

the increase in bore would increase displacement to 2.0, which increases torque and power.. plus the motor would be ready for 9500rpms and a nasty vtec head!

 

stroking an engine will generally decrease the longevity and rev capability of an engine

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by civicsitek GanGsTa &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">stroking an engine will generally decrease the longevity and rev capability of an engine</TD></TR></TABLE>

i dont get why some people think you can stroke a motor and rev the dog **** out of it

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by eviltwin &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

i dont get why some people think you can stroke a motor and rev the dog **** out of it</TD></TR></TABLE>
Because there is not very much good evidence to the contrary, other than people's opinions. I have not heard any cases of bad things happening (namely failure) attributed to poor rod/stroke ratio, probably because everyone IS scared to rev a stroked motor.

Anyone have any REAL EXPERIENCE with stroked motors and high revs?

 

I had a ls-vtec 2.0 and reved it to 10 grand no prob.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by lucky one &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> I had a ls-vtec 2.0 and reved it to 10 grand no prob.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I can agree with this one as well. Been there done that. Also my H22 stroker gets reved to 8000 and its r/s ratio is even worse than the LSVTEC.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by civicsitek GanGsTa &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">stroking an engine will generally decrease the longevity and rev capability of an engine</TD></TR></TABLE>

How will stoking a motor decrease the longevitity of it?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Wilky &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Because there is not very much good evidence to the contrary, other than people's opinions. I have not heard any cases of bad things happening (namely failure) attributed to poor rod/stroke ratio, probably because everyone IS scared to rev a stroked motor.

Anyone have any REAL EXPERIENCE with stroked motors and high revs?</TD></TR></TABLE>

edited nevermind..............figure it out on your own.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Adam F &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

How will stoking a motor decrease the longevitity of it?</TD></TR></TABLE>Stroking the motor dramaticly increase piston speed,side loading of the piston into the cyl wall,and reduce ring life.As far as reliability and revability as long as the motor was assembled w/good parts and by a person who knows what he's doing it should last at least a year,if taken care of properly.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Wilky &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Because there is not very much good evidence to the contrary, other than people's opinions. I have not heard any cases of bad things happening (namely failure) attributed to poor rod/stroke ratio, probably because everyone IS scared to rev a stroked motor.

Anyone have any REAL EXPERIENCE with stroked motors and high revs?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Check out mine. H23 VTEC http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4290532631 10,000 miles.

If you want to argue against simple physics go right ahead. Stroking a motor severely increases piston acceleration/deceleration (bad), increases piston sideloading (bad), which all contributes to a lower reciprocating efficiency (made up terms) of the crank (lower powerband). It creates a lot of torque. But if you rev it high you are fighting the forces of physics, and it will own you eventually. Usually with spun rod bearings.

But in my case we decided to just **** the whole thing over

quote:
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by satan_srv &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Ahhh judgement day....I love the smell of napalm in the morning

So we cracked the engine open


Looks good right? WRONG!

Look at that crack on the crankshaft counterweight!!! :eek:

Oh let's turn the crank a little!

Dammmmmn!!


So yeah the crank is cracked all the way through...it's like 2 pieces. Interesting to note that the crack is not near any of the knife-edged parts.

But wait! There's more! Did anyone notice the main cap? :eek:


Let me make this more obvious



Look at the bearings, completely melted/spun/messed/FUBAR




So yeah...that's pretty much it. It wasn't an oil issue at all. the crank broke and it ran for a while....then eventually the cap messed and jumped the t-belt.

So here's the analysis:

-Darton Sleeves look fine, Arias pistons look fine (from block side)
-Minimum bent valves in #2
-#2 main cap is busted
-crank is busted
--The main journals are in rough shape, block is basically junk </TD></TR></TABLE>

 

Also to explain the different power band, using the exact same head with Crower Stage 3 cams I moved my powerband 700rpms.

H22a: peak at 7500 rpms
H23 VTEC peak at 6800 rpms.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by eviltwin &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

edited nevermind..............figure it out on your own. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Good responce. Cause its only a urban myth.
First you must understand what rod to stroke ratios are then you wont need opinions you will know the facts.

 

Everyone is going to have an opinion on Stroker motors... If you talk to Jakes Racing or R&D youll hear one thing... Talk to AEBS or JG and youll hear another... The truth is theres more than one way to make power, many ways of achieving the same goal...

Lets go over some facts...

Fact: Stroker motors decrease engine life
Fact: Stroker motors wear on components such as rings (side load), rods and rod bolts, cranks and bearings

Now, in complete contridiction to those facts you have a motor like this...



This is a H-T member 2point6's stroked H22 running a stroke of 98mm... heres his set up...

Engine Block: '93 H22a "bored and stroked" to 2.44ltrs of displacement built by Collective Racing. Custom 98mm crank (Balanced and nitrited), Darton sleeves, Crower Pro-billet rods, Custom 12/1 compression 89mm JE pistons, Prodrive oil pump, Unorthodox Racing crank pulley, manual timing belt tensioner conversion.

Cylinder head: Ported and polished by Collective Racing, Web Cams custom camshafts, Web Cams springs and Titainium retainers, Euro Type R manifold conversion, Hondata intake manifold gasket, Erick's Racing 70-68mm Throttle body, RC engineering 440cc Fuel injectors, B&M fuel pressure riser and Guage, STR cam seal, AEM cam gears, SMSP 4-2-1 header (prototype #3), ARP head studs, ARP main studs, Cometic head gasket.


From a numbers standpoint theres no way this motor should be peaking at 7700 but sure enough the dyno sheet shows you a different story...

Heres the part that I thought was interesting... This motor has 40,000+ miles on it...

This is a perfect argument that if a stroker motor is built right it can be decently reliable... You cant expect to have the longevity of a factory motor which is the same for any build using forged pistons...

Like I said, everybody has an opinion

 

Sure...if you buy good enough parts, stroker motors can last.

Just don't expect OEM honda stuff to hold up very long.

 

yep, b20 vtec, built lets say, I've seen 10,000 many many many times. And to say the least it's awesome.

 

Technically speaking the advantage of stroking a motor is that you move the maximum amount of air that your engine can ingest sooner. Which in turn means you can make more power at less rpm compared to a motor with a smaller stroke that needs to rev way higher to move the equivalent amount of air. So what this all means is that you don't have to rev the **** out of it to get good power from it. Lastly longer stroke motors make way more torque than short stroke motors, which is what anyone with a honda should really want.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by kid-honda &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Good responce. Cause its only a urban myth.
First you must understand what rod to stroke ratios are then you wont need opinions you will know the facts.</TD></TR></TABLE>

only a urban myth...lol, this has been an issue since hot-rods with small blocks and big blocks.

one word...................harmonics

 

You guys are blowing this way outa proportion.I've done heads for guy's running 650ci big blocks with 5 inch stokes and they survive for many seasons as long as they are tuned right.Yes they have accelerated wear and don't rev to the sky,but there making 1200-1300hp NA at like 9000+RPM.It's not like a stroked motor blows up after a couple of passes down the track.


Modified by fkned at 3:32 AM 11/8/2003

 

from what i know.
there are 2 ways to stroke a motor,
one, add a deck, and make longer rods. therefore, rod to stroke ratio will get you a bigger displacement.
pros, more tq and of course more power.
cons, motor can not last in high rpm.

second way, increase the stroke size on the crank, decrease rod lenght and over bore the sleeves (the sleeves are what really increase the displacement). this is a better way. although you get less tq, but you are allowed the RPM. and prob will last longer even with stock parts.

if anyone out there knows more, or feels that i have posted in error, please correct me.
thanks!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by phantoman &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">from what i know.
there are 2 ways to stroke a motor,
one, add a deck, and make longer rods. therefore, rod to stroke ratio will get you a bigger displacement.
pros, more tq and of course more power.
cons, motor can not last in high rpm.

second way, increase the stroke size on the crank, decrease rod lenght and over bore the sleeves (the sleeves are what really increase the displacement). this is a better way. although you get less tq, but you are allowed the RPM. and prob will last longer even with stock parts.

if anyone out there knows more, or feels that i have posted in error, please correct me.
thanks!
</TD></TR></TABLE>You are somewhat right with your ideas just a little off.Longer rods deckplate or not do not by themselves create more displacement.The reasons to use longer rods are to have a better r/s ratio,as you said,and to be able to use shorter and lighter pistons by moving the ring package up on the piston.You are correct there are only 2 ways to increase displacement 1st is increase the bore diameter and 2nd is increase stroke,each done independenly of each other will increase displacement by themselves.If both motors have the same amount of care and abuse then usually the shorter rodded,longer stroked motor will need a rebuild sooner then the a long rod and short stroke motor.The reasons for this are greater cyl wall loading(more ring wear,greater chance of piston scuffing)and faster piston speeds in the longer stroked motor.Adding a deckplate to a stroked motor to improve the r/s ratio only helps so much.As the crank gets longer throws it must perform everything faster to compensate,as piston speed increases cyl filling efficiency at high RPM goes down.

 

Since this thread is about stroker motors. I have a quick question. My motor is getting built right now and there gonna throw in a 89mm crank with stock GSR rods, and ITR pistons. Will reliability be a problem or is it gonna pretty much be like a stock motor?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by allmtrgsr1.8 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">My motor is getting built right now and there gonna throw in a 89mm crank with stock GSR rods, and ITR pistons. Will reliability be a problem or is it gonna pretty much be like a stock motor?</TD></TR></TABLE>

This motor will not run. The pistons will hit the head-GSR rods are too long-you have to use LS rods with an LS crank. Hopefully that is what your engine builder is doing. ARP rod bolts would not hurt either.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by b19coupe &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

This motor will not run. The pistons will hit the head-GSR rods are too long-you have to use LS rods with an LS crank. Hopefully that is what your engine builder is doing. ARP rod bolts would not hurt either.</TD></TR></TABLE>

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by fkned &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I've done heads for guy's


Modified by fkned at 3:32 AM 11/8/2003</TD></TR></TABLE>

whaaaaaat? Sorry I couldn't help myself.

Anyways stroking a motor isn't done to be a daily driven 100,000 mile motor, its for racing, which should be periodically refreshed anyway. Any motor not proper built won't last long.