I mean I have 205/50-15 on GSR rims and I have major issues getting traction off the line, true I do not have Aziens yet but will. Since I did some updates I have major issues getting moving without major wheel spin. Adn I do mean all I do is blip the throttle and I loose traction, Alignment is dead on with canber kit. I didn't have this problem with a B16 car I drove with S1 box with skinnier tires than I have now. I mean I know its No B18C5 or B20 Vtec or even a turbo torque monster. But damn, this thing should hook up better than it is.

Better Add this is a ZX DOHC, ZC Trans, headers 2.5 catback , CAI PM6, Soon to have Stage 2 exospeed cams and Chipped PM7 ECU, ans Si/ZC trans hybrid (ZC trans/w Si final and 5thgear).

 

Its just plain that people dont get traction on street tires with a swap. When I floor my B20 I can make the tires chirp a bit.... It depends on your tires and how you luanch.....

Blaze

 

I mean I have to be ultra gentile or I smoke. almost like dry pavement is wet in how it responds in 1st gear traction. Until the mods it hooked up real well. On the same tires. The B16 hatch I drove had crappy tires worse than I have. It wasn't aas prone to tire spin, but then B16 has less bottom end torgue and weighs more than the ZC. And My motor is not the torque monster your B20 is.

THe mods I mean is not the ZC swap but the header catback and CAI. it hooked up before but after the mods the HP is noticible WAY UP and traction problems are there bigtime now. Tires are not great but not bad ones either. Falken Aziens are on the menu come spring. Cams go in this weekend, Trans is going Hybrid in the spring when warm weather gets here too, unless I find a warm place to work before then.

This is a daily driver not a track car.


Modified by virginia_dude at 10:51 AM 10/29/2003


Modified by virginia_dude at 11:16 AM 10/29/2003


Modified by virginia_dude at 11:17 AM 10/29/2003

 

Get some sticky tires (Azenis, V700, etc.) and see what happens then. That or really bad Wheel hop?

 

Well new tires have to wait for a few months yet, still have way too much tread to tos them now, traction problems or not. I won't toss good tires away.

 

i put a set of jimfab traction bars and its helped my traction extremely well, stopped almost all wheelhop and i dont have the greatest tires either............

 

You can't compare the B16 and the ZC when talking about traction. The B16 has very little torque off the line, so traction should be better with that motor. The ZC has a good amount of torque, comparable to the B20.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by keithv &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You can't compare the B16 and the ZC when talking about traction. The B16 has very little torque off the line, so traction should be better with that motor. The ZC has a good amount of torque, comparable to the B20.

</TD></TR></TABLE>


Are you serious that the ZC has comparable torque to the B20?

The B20 is a torque monster and the ZC is rated a what 110 ft/lbs.

He shouldn't be having the "serious" amount of traction issues that he is explaining. Maybe he has really bad tires, but come on this is 1.6 liter engine, not a torque monster by any means.

 

if its that bad start in 2nd gear...thats what i had to do with my ls/vtec...

 

I didn't have those type of traction issues with mine. I was running crappy Perelli P600s or something like that. It would spin in the top of 1st, but that was about it.

Not to sound like a retard, but are you sure it isn't the clutch slipping at the top end? If the clutch is barely slipping it can be hard to tell the difference (unless of course you can hear the tires screetching).

I'd check things like the radius arm bushings, LCA bushings, tie rod ends, etc. It could be the case that something is moving when you get in to it and causing the traction to go out the window.

You car sounds like mine as far as traction, but mine is boosted now.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by hybrid honda &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">


Are you serious that the ZC has comparable torque to the B20?

The B20 is a torque monster and the ZC is rated a what 110 ft/lbs.

He shouldn't be having the "serious" amount of traction issues that he is explaining. Maybe he has really bad tires, but come on this is 1.6 liter engine, not a torque monster by any means.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I've seen dyno plots of a B20 and a ZC. The B20 had 7 ft-lbs more than the ZC overall, but the B20 had more torque starting at a lower RPM. The B20 is, by no means, a "torque monster" unless you go B20vtec. All IMO.

 

Install a Quaife!

It totally help my traction problems (along with the lag of the SC50 ).

I would hook like a miata on a good launch with the Jimfab bars, Quaife, and 205 Azenis...******* awsome!

Too bad my oil pump inlet got clogged...

 

I have sen dyno plots of semi - built b20's that are making 150 + ft/lbs.


The ZC makes around 100 to the wheels usually?


Somebody correct me if I am wrong, but I thought the ZC had comparable torque to the b16, which is next to nothing. Now I guess the ZC might have a little more low end torque when compared to the b16, but I still dont think it's any near comparable to the b20.

One is a 2 liter and one is 1.6, that should tell the story right there.

 

front end was gone over 1 onth ago thats fine. proble occured when the bolt-ons went on, and I agree I should not be having this kinf of traction problems, clutch does not slip in 1st but will in 3rd at 4,500 if I really get traction. Tires are slipping not clutch, I have trouble getting it moving without tire spin, I have to be seriously gentile on the gas and delicate on the clutch or tires spin. this is bottom end not upper, I get tirespin going into second easy and 3rd if I am on it real hard, but then clutch slipps then if I am

 

I would get better tires, good luck

 

Crappy ZC dyno... Dx tranny.

85 ftlbs by 2000 rpms aint bad at all mang... In fact if you look at this you will see that the torque cruve is pretty much totaly linear.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by hybrid honda &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I have sen dyno plots of semi - built b20's that are making 150 + ft/lbs.

The ZC makes around 100 to the wheels usually?

Somebody correct me if I am wrong, but I thought the ZC had comparable torque to the b16, which is next to nothing. Now I guess the ZC might have a little more low end torque when compared to the b16, but I still dont think it's any near comparable to the b20.

One is a 2 liter and one is 1.6, that should tell the story right there.</TD></TR></TABLE>

First off, you can't compare a built motor to a stock motor. Of course a built motor will yield more torque. A B20 is a decent motor for torque if you build it right, but bone stock they aren't that great. All said IMO.

Here is my dyno plot of my ZC, all stock motor:

The torque "curve" is pretty flat. I don't think the B16 has the same curve. If someone has a B16 plot, post it up!

I know I have a dyno plot of a stock B20 around someplace. If I find it I will post it up as well.

 

THe Zc has more bottom end Torque and HP but the B16 shines in the upper RPM ranges. But the point is bolt-ons had a huge difference in my case more than I imagined they could have. Side effect is major traction issues. I will take points made and triple check front end again. Tie rod ends are new ball joints good. I will check busshings because I admit they could have failed by some coincidence. But 2 months ago all this stuff was fine because it was gone over closely, right before the bolt-ons were installed. But Unless something catastrophic happened, this motor is not that kind of powerhouse I should have these issues. Car runs and drives fine, does not pull and literally jumps forward when you nail the gas. Love the ole butt dyno.

For the guy with the DX tranny, jeese the ZC SUCKS in front of one of those. I speak from experience. I had one for a week, then went through 2 Si boxes that were noisey, then put a ZC box in out of frustration. Tell you what, I like the ZC box better by far than the Si, Torque sterr is minimal now, and it was horrible with the Si Box. A DX box never lets you get into the powerband of the engine. Hell you would get a ticket on nearly any highway in the country in Second gear before you got that motor into the bottom end of its powerband.

Well tonights project is check bushings etc. but the proble only occurs on hard acceleration, otherwise it rides sounds and handles beautifully. Doubt thats the problem, but I will make no assumptions.

 

My ZC with I/E...

hp: 128.6 and tq: 108.1 on a 248C Dynojet

I think a stock B20 would turn more than 108 ft lbs at the wheels.

 

I am certain it would, the B20 does not have a 9,000 rpm readline but something quite a bit lower. I don't remember what I have read but I am certain it is substantially better than the ZC as far as bottom end torque or torque across the power band is concerned. Assuming both are normally aspirated.

 

How is the gearing in the ZC tranny as opposed to the Si? I've got a Y8 engine in my car with a DX tranny and want to upgrade asap. If i jump to a ZC tranny or something later than a 91 trans what will i have to do to make it work? Thanks in advance...sorry for the dumb questions.

 

the overall ratio in the gears is close between the two. the ZC uses an intermediate shaft and TEG axels. However the ZC has a taller final ratio but shorter gears, the Si Has a Shorter final but longer gears. THats why you hear about putting a Si final into a ZC box, but you end up with a tans that has you about 4,500 rpm at just over 60, but the tallerSi 5th brings it back, real short gears 1-4 with a good 5th crusier, but unmolested the ZC box is sweet in my opinion, perfect spreads in each of the 5 gears. And they have lower milage than any Si box you are going to find.

Si has bad torque steer, thats why I recomend the ZC box. Unless you already had a good Si box I would just buy the ZC box from an importer. I ran both, and like this one best.

Later than a '91 is hysdrolic, and that gets expensive and dificault to make work, Hasport has a kit but its pricey. More than a Cable ZC box will cost. get '93 teg non abs axels and its a perfect fit, be sure to get the ZC intermediate chaft however when you get the transmission.

Oh a limited slip differential woul dbe so sweet, but also so expensive.

 

how much would this ZC tranny setup be for my CRX? You mentioned hydro-cable conversion kit and then said it is more than a cable ZC tanny. So i could pick up a cable ZC and not need a kit right? sorry tranny's aren't my specialty

 

the road surface you are driving on and the weather can cause alot of traction issues. are your troubles coming on the track or on the street?

i have to be real easy with my d16a6 when launching on street tires. nittos suck! at the track i made one run in the warm sun and it launched good...i made 3 more runs after the sun went down and a little dew must have settled and i couldnt make it <u>not</u> spin through 1st and 2nd. my times were off by almost a whole second. if theres any moisture on the road surface at all the damn thing will start spinning the tires even in third gear around 5500rpm. thats a d16a6...not a zc, b16 or b20.

also if its a cold dry night your gonna make that much more power. i would also agree with everyone else that tires would make the biggest difference. also are you running a stock suspension? if not what shock/spring combo are you using?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by therealciviczc &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">My ZC with I/E...

hp: 128.6 and tq: 108.1 on a 248C Dynojet

I think a stock B20 would turn more than 108 ft lbs at the wheels. </TD></TR></TABLE>

what intake and exhaust do you have that your getting these numbers with, if i can get 140 horse at the wheels with my crx i would be happy and forgot about doing a b swap or turboing my dohc zc