<u>Car</u>
91 Integra LS (winter beater)
177,000 miles

<u>Background</u>
Refurbished, machined Head (full 3 angle valve job)
Hot tanked Head
Hot tanked Intake manifold
New OEM head gasket
New timing belt
New water pump/thermostat
Bottom end stock and untouched (9:1 CR)

<u>Symptoms</u>
Car blows a ton of white smoke out of the exhaust when driven
White smoke lessens after car is warmed up and at idle
Unusually large puddle of water under muffler (brown color)
Coolant in overflow is being drained

<u>Facts</u> -This is where it gets interesting
Compression test: Solid 190psi in every cylinder
Leakdown test: Solid, no more than 2% leakage from any cylinder
No bubbles in coolant, no milky substance or anything.
Drained oil: No coolant in oil pan
Flushed coolant: No oil in coolant
Does not overheat (fan isnt even coming on &gt; wiring issue)
Pulled Spark Plugs: Only #2 plug was wet, rest looked normal. However #2 holds perfect compression hah

Edit: Coolant system pressure test: Held factory specs of 15psi for 5 mins. Held even 30psi for 5 mins, no pressure loss, or coolant in cylinders.

WTF?! Doesnt make any sense!

When the car was first re-assembled I put 100% water in the radiator just to start it up with the intention of flushing it soon. I flushed it tonight to check for oil. When I refilled up the radiator I used a 50/50 mix of coolant/water (according to Helms). And I also tried some STP Ring Seal oil additive (in case it was burning oil). Now it smokes MORE than it did yesterday. lol

What the hell? Im convinced its burning coolant but how the **** is it getting into the cylinder? Its a new head gasket and its holding perfect compression. The car starts, idles and runs great. Just blows out a cloud of white smoke

The head was purchased used from another 91 B18A1 to replace the original head (threw a timing belt). I fear maybe either the head or the deck is warped, however the damn thing holds compression like a champ. Its doubtful that the headgasket is the culprit because its new and holds great compression. Ive searched extensively however I never found a similar case like mine. Nothing adds up!

Any clues?

<U>Cliffnotes</U> Car is burning coolant after rebuild but doesnt display normal causes of coolant leakage. And I like to use in my threads.


Modified by Muckman at 10:18 PM 10/30/2003

 

This is a long shot...BUT maybe there is a tiny crank somewhere where the coolant flows near combustion. With this saying no oil is getting cause the tiny hole soe the pressure the coolant exerts is greater than anything to some in.

 

if its white smoke,like you say,it has to be a small crack somewhere or some void in the headgasket area.Are you sure the smoke doesnt have a blue hue to it???

 

how long did the car sit while it was down, and what happened that caused it to need a rebuild?

reason I ask is because you may have coolant or other crap built up in the exhuast and it is just blowing it out.

When I cracked a sleeve and rebuilt it, my car smoked some for a few days.

Once it cleared out it was all fine.

 

The car threw a timing belt 9 months ago. I bought it from a friend for a cheap fix it project. Its sat until now. Actually I dont even think the head was damaged from that, but another head was purchased just in case.

I dont think its still burning crap out because Ive run it for hours at this point. Letting it idle for sometimes 30 mins then driving it around the block. It has maybe 2 miles on the setup and 3 hours of run time. Also the symptoms are pretty undenyable. We're talking a huge cloud of white smoke behind the car when I give it any throttle, it never stops smoking.

I certainly wish it would just go away but I doubt that will happen. The smoke is deffinitly NOT blue or have any blue hue whatsoever.

And if any part of the combustion chamber was cracked wouldnt that show up in the leakdown test? Air is thinner than water and it holds air perfectly. Ive redone the leakdown test to confirm that each cylinder holds 98-99% of 50 psi.

Im leaning towards a coolant leak from another source other than the headgasket such as the intake manifold. I was thinking a coolant pressure test would be a good place to start?

 

sounds like coolant definitely.Time to take the head off and see what happened.Did the last gasket leave a bunch of black stuff caked on the top of the block???

 

Look at facts, the compression results, the leak down results! How can it possibly be leaking through the head gasket? HOW? This car is really kicking my ***.

The head has been off the car 4 times for various reasons in the past 2 months. No the gasket did not leave any black stuff caked on the block. Everything looked normal.

I think the coolant has to be enterting the cylinders from some where else. What else has coolant in it? Im thinking the Intake Manifold. What if the Intake Manifold gasket was leaking internally? I re used the old one but it looked good. However no signs of leaking around that area.

 

Where do I buy a coolant pressure tester, shown in the Helms? Sears, Autozone, Summit Racing dont sell them.

 

You may need to go to a nicer tool commpany to find a good pressure tester, this is an important test to see if your cyl pressure is leaking in to your coolant jackets, and vice versa.

Snap-on (the one i have), Mac, Matco, and others also all sell coolant pressure testers.

is there coolant blow off around your expansion bottle?

-sander

 

Intake manifold won't leak coolant into the combustion chamber.

And you say you've only driven it for 3 hours right?

it took mine like a day to clear out, and that was driving around, getting on it, etc.

all the facts you posted lead to that.

Lets put it this way, If you tested the combustion chamber leakdown and it is within normal spec, theres no way coolant will get into the cylinders.


Have you smelled the smoke, sweet smell of coolant? Don't take a big whiff, but you can get a general sense of the smell.

Make sure its coolant. Still everything points to just clearing the exhaust, unless something is being left out.

 

I have let the car warm up and idle for a total of maybe 3 hours, over the past week, 30 mins at a time. I let it warm up, see that it is smoking. Took it for a quick spin around the block twice, maybe a total of 1 mile.

Exhaust does NOT smell sweet. It is NOT blue color. There is NO coolant blow off around the expansion bottle. What the hell else could it be?

Its very possible that it could be burning **** off but after 3 hours still? If anything the smoke has increased not decreased over time (past few days). I work on it a little at a time.

I was running 100% water then because I was planning to flush it soon. The other night I flushed the coolant to check for oil containimation. And when I filled it up I used a 50/50 coolant/water mix and now it smokes more

Are you saying I should go drive it more?

 

Are you sure the intake manifold gasket is good. Could be leaking from the gasket into one of the runners which wouldn't show in a leak down nor compression check.

 

nothing would leak from the intake manifold to cause alot of smoke. unless you dumped a buket of water into the leaking gasket.

you've only driven it one mile which is not enough to blow out 9 months of moisture that has probably built up in the exhaust.

does it billow out alot at idle? or just when you get on it?

I

 

<u>Update</u>

I wanted to pressurize the coolant system to test for leaks, similar to a leakdown test of an engine. I couldnt find anyone local who sold a coolant system pressure tester so I rigged up my leakdown tester to the coolant overflow tube. I used fuel clamps on both ends of the rubber hose to hold the pressure.

I gently started off with 15 psi as per the helms (below). I moved up to 20psi and the radiator cap started leaking so I pushed down on it. Moved up to 25psi and the main coolant line into the head sprung a leak so I put a fuel clamp on that. Moved up to 30psi (twice the factory spec) and put my ear directly over the spark plug holes in the valve cover with spark plugs removed. In my garage with no background noise I could hear absolutely nothing. I watched the gauge for 5 mins and the gauge did not lose any pressure at 30psi. I then taped a cotten swab to the end of a long screw driver and swabbed the top of each piston. Not one was wet what so ever.

I think pretty much proves a good head gasket seal. Pressurized the coolant and it didnt not leak into the cylinder. Pressurized the cylinder and it did not leak past the headgasket. With this new information, coupled with the leakdown tests prove that coolant is not enterting the combustion chamber? Any thoughts? I will drive it around more as soon as I get it insured and on the road for winter.

 

did you remember to put your head gasket on ? :-P

 

heh yeah, brand new, never crushed before.

 

its oil.

 

How much carbon was on the piston tops and in the chambers in the replacement head? Ever shock the cabon deposits out of an older engine by sucking up a bottle a PB blaster, or sea foam through the IM? I do not recommend this, but it will smoke to hell, white smoke and lots of it. This might be similar to allowing the carbon covered parts to absorb moisture over time. Take it for a ride and try to burn it out.

 

The head and the intake manifold were hot tanked. There is no carbon in the combustion camber. Everything was cleaned before reassembly.

I dont think its oil, oil is blue.

 

What about atop the pistons with 177,000miles on them?

 

well if it doesnt smell like coolant and it is white it has got to be oil. its not the coolant aystem or b/c the car is runnin rich(black smoke) so it is oil. when the car heats ups, turn it off and take your dipstick out. make sure you let it drip on the exhaust mani. note the color.

 

If your throttle body is coolant-cooled, you should check the TB for cracks on the inside to make sure that coolant isn't blowing into the air charge from there. The coolant could be leaking at your heater core, although that's easy to test for (no heat, der ) and wouldn't cause thick, white smoke to pour from your exhaust.

If it smells sweet, is thick as a cloud and you're not losing any significant amount of oil, it's definately coolant. If it's blue, wispy and smells like ****, it's oil: however you've proven through your experimentation that it's almost 100% not.

Take it back to the machine shop and see what they have to say about it.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Muckman &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">What if the Intake Manifold gasket was leaking internally? I re used the old one but it looked good.</TD></TR></TABLE> ta daaaaaaaa
I think we have a winner.. could vbery well be the intake mani gasket... coolaant can be leaking into the air intake charge at that point.

this presumption also would rest since there is no mixing of oil at that point so you are right in not finding oil mixed with coolant in both the radiator and oilpan.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by owen_the_soyboy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> ta daaaaaaaa
I think we have a winner.. could vbery well be the intake mani gasket... coolaant can be leaking into the air intake charge at that point.

this presumption also would rest since there is no mixing of oil at that point so you are right in not finding oil mixed with coolant in both the radiator and oilpan.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

yeah re using IM gaskets is a nono, but you live, you learn...

-sander

 

Didn't you read the part about my coolant system pressure check? If the intake manifold gasket was leaking it would show up in that test. I pressurized the coolant system to 30psi for 5 mins, it didnt drop a single psi. After that I checked the cylinders and there wasnt a single drop of coolant.